334.12(B) Common Violation….

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

…..At least in my area.

Surface mounted exterior panel, someone wants to add a circuit, and they run a short piece of pvc conduit down the outside of the house with romex inside, attached to the siding, and then LB into the crawl space.

See it all the time. But it should transition from THWN-2 to romex, either in a box or in the LB if it’s listed for that.

You guys see this a lot?

 

[infinity]

I've seen it too. Even did it once on a favor job 30 years ago with EMT and NM cable. The tubing and wire are still there and the circuit still works.

 

[electrofelon]

What exactly happens that is bad when NM gets wet? Or true THHN?

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Nothing, that I know of.

Except it’s a violation of the Holy NEC.

I understand not using Romex underground, or in truly wet locations, but we come out into panels, boxes, and condulets that are outside all the time.

 

[acin]

Nothing, that I know of.

Except it’s a violation of the Holy NEC.

I understand not using Romex underground, or in truly wet locations, but we come out into panels, boxes, and condulets that are outside all the time.

could you call it a protective sleeve

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Inside of exterior conduit is still considered a damp location

 

[garbo]

What exactly happens that is bad when NM gets wet? Or true THHN?

When the paper on the bare ground wire becomes wet it falls apart. Maybe the NEC is afraid a bare wire along with vibration might chaff the insulation on the white & black wires. True this would be more of a problem with the old NM cable ( pre 1980's) that had what appears to be TW insulation. The thinner insulation on the far superior NMB THHN insulation holds up a lot better. When I removed old NM cable to outdoor luminares the first inch of paper at box entrance were often wet and paper falling apart.

 

[augie47]

At an IAEI meeting we were told the paper in NM installed in a wet location gets wet causes mold to form and spread.

 

[petersonra]

At an IAEI meeting we were told the paper in NM installed in a wet location gets wet causes mold to form and spread.

How is this harmful?

 

[LarryFine]

How is this harmful?

Doesn't NM mean No Mold?

 

[gene6]

Surface mounted exterior panel, someone wants to add a circuit, and they run a short piece of pvc conduit down the outside of the house with romex inside

I do that all day long, what I have been failed on with exterior panels and romex cable is >312.5(C)< A guy I worked for decades ago used to put a close chase nipple in the back of an exterior panel and bring all the cable in that way and I did it his way, until we got a new inspector who called us on it. Have not seen that in 20 years.
If the romex first enters an LB from a basement I have never had an issue, especially if it enters the bottom of the exterior panel. I suppose if and when I get called on it I'd use UF for the home runs.

 

[petersonra]

I do that all day long, what I have been failed on with exterior panels and romex cable is >312.5(C)< A guy I worked for decades ago used to put a close chase nipple in the back of an exterior panel and bring all the cable in that way and I did it his way, until we got a new inspector who called us on it. Have not seen that in 20 years.
If the romex first enters an LB from a basement I have never had an issue, especially if it enters the bottom of the exterior panel. I suppose if and when I get called on it I'd use UF for the home runs.

What they need is a crime stoppers program for electrical violations so I can rat you guys out for $$.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

At an IAEI meeting we were told the paper in NM installed in a wet location gets wet causes mold to form and spread.

So now the NFPA is also the Mold Reduction Enforcement Agency.

Great.

 

[LarryFine]

What they need is a crime stoppers program for electrical violations so I can rat you guys out for $$.

And I'll make more by threatening to.

 

[Chamuit]

Strip the sheathing off of the exterior portion then it's no longer NM-B sheathed cable. KISS.

 

[jap]

I've seen it too. Even did it once on a favor job 30 years ago with EMT and NM cable. The tubing and wire are still there and the circuit still works.

Well since we're telling on ourselves same here.

Only I drilled down through the wood floor from an interior panel, stretched about 40 feet of 10/2 wg and stapled it across the face of the floor joists in the crawl space (which I think is a violation also) poked out the exterior wall above the foundation between the floor joists, stripped the sheathing off, turned it up through an aluminum LB and 3 feet of 3/4" EMT into the bottom of a 60a AC pullout located directly behind the condensing unit where it was hard to get to , then , converted to 1/2" sealtite and THHN from the pullout to the unit so I would feel better about myself.

Been there 25 years and not a problem one.

Jap.

 

[jap]

I do that all day long, what I have been failed on with exterior panels and romex cable is >312.5(C)< A guy I worked for decades ago used to put a close chase nipple in the back of an exterior panel and bring all the cable in that way and I did it his way, until we got a new inspector who called us on it. Have not seen that in 20 years.
If the romex first enters an LB from a basement I have never had an issue, especially if it enters the bottom of the exterior panel. I suppose if and when I get called on it I'd use UF for the home runs.

Well I've seen a close nipple, and, I've seen a chase nipple, but,,,, a "close chase nipple"? Lol.,,

Jap>

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I wonder if any of the CMPs even have any honest-to-goodness tradesmen, who have actual real world experience in the field.

I have a permit application out right now for an 18kW Generac installation. Simple as can be.

The County has asked for, in addition to all the specs sheets for everything, plus a 3 line diagram and the mounds of documents they require, they just came back and asked for a “construction waste and demolition plan“, and a “Stormwater Management Plan“, or documentation that my project is exempt.

The idiots in authority, and the ones making the regulations are getting dumber by the minute.

 

[infinity]

The idiots in authority, and the ones making the regulations are getting dumber by the minute.

Yup red tape is the bane of progress. We had a tiny bridge over a creek that got damaged in a storm. It took 2 years of site planning, environmental review, bidding, and contractor approval just to put back the same bridge. Right before construction was to begin they halted the project and said that they could not start until they had a bat impact study. That took another year. It took almost 4 years to replace a bridge that the Chinese would have finished in a month.

 

[rc/retired]

Well since we're telling on ourselves same here.

That's where the problem lies. An old timer once told me, "It's not a mistake if you don't tell anyone"

Ron