334.80 and 210.52G ?? how to fix

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weather77

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I wanted to see how this could be fixed
Residential home. Romex wiring
Inspector wrote 334.80 above panel

some of the holes drilled above panel formed a big hole
I assume he is calling this more than 2 in a hole.

Should i cut it open into a bigger cut out slot and spread the wires apart?
What would be proper spacing?


Also he wrote 210.52g circuit leaving garage for exterior lights

So the garage door lights needs to be on another circuit? Or am i misunderstanding something?
 
Under the 2014 the garage circuits cannot leave the garage. Outdoor receptacles and lights that are on the exterior of the garage are not considered in the garage so they cannot be connected to the garage circuit

210.52(G) Basements, Garages, and Accessory Buildings. For
a one-family dwelling, at least one receptacle outlet shall be
installed in the areas specified in 210.52(G)(1) through (3).
These receptacles shall be in addition to receptacles required
for specific equipment.
(1) Garages. In each attached garage and in each detached
garage with electric power. The branch circuit supplying
this receptacle(s) shall not supply outlets outside of the
garage. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for
each car space.
(2) Accessory Buildings. In each accessory building with
electric power.
(3) Basements. In each separate unfinished portion of a
basement.
Click to expand...
 
The wires from the panel is an issue. What we do is drill a bunch of small holes and only put a max of 4 - 2 wire cables thru the holes.
 
The reason I said 4- 2 wire cables is because NM has 90 degree wire so a #12 is rated 30 amps. With 8 current carrying conductor's in a hole we must de-rate 70% but 70% of 30 is still 21 amps and not an issue. Works for #14 awg also
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Under the 2014 the garage circuits cannot leave the garage. Outdoor receptacles and lights that are on the exterior of the garage are not considered in the garage so they cannot be connected to the garage circuit
Click to expand...

So how can they be powered? I haven't run into this before, but I may in the near future.
 
Barbqranch said:
So how can they be powered? I haven't run into this before, but I may in the near future.
Click to expand...

Run two circuits to the garage is one option. Did these holes have fire or draft stopping material in them? If not you can cram in as many NM cables as you want.
 
infinity said:
Run two circuits to the garage is one option. Did these holes have fire or draft stopping material in them? If not you can cram in as many NM cables as you want.
Click to expand...


If i may infinity, a bit of misunderstanding may exist here, wouldn't the 24" rule apply????>>

334.80>
Where more than two NM cables containing two or
more current-carrying conductors are installed, without
maintaining spacing between the cables, through the same
opening in wood framing that is to be sealed with thermal
insulation, caulk, or sealing foam, the allowable ampacity
of each conductor shall be adjusted in accordance with
table 310.15(B)(3)(a) and the provisions of 310.15(A)(2),
Exception, shall not apply. *

Where more than two NM cables containing two or
more current-carrying conductors are installed in contact
with thermal insulation without maintaining spacing be-
tween cables, the allowable ampacity of each conductor
shall be adjusted in accordance with Table 310.15(B)(3)(a).

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
310.15(B)(3)(a) Adjustment Factors.
(a) More Than Three Current-Carrying Conductors. Where the number of current-carrying conductors in a raceway or cable exceeds three, or where single conductors or multiconductor cables are installed without maintaining spacining for a continuous length longer than 600 mm (24 in.) and are not installed in raceways, the allowable ampacity of each conductor shall be reduced as shown in table 31o.15(B)(3)(a).

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
310.15(A)(2) Exception: Where two different ampacities apply to adjacent portions of a circuit, the higher ampacity shall be permitted to be used beyond the point of transition, a distance equal to 3.0 m (10 ft) or 10 percent of the circuit
length figured at the higher ampacity, whichever is less.
Click to expand...

~RJ~
 
Yes infinity, in most cases the framing holes NM runs through is less than 24"

Yet due to the popularity of spray foam , we've been subject to a lot of scrutiny on how many NM's can be fit into one hole, via 334.80

They've only thrown out the 10% rule, not the use of the table mentioned, which seems to be the issue

imho, nothing has changed....

~RJ~
 
Pretty clear to me-- if it is caulked then the 10% rule is out and we must derate. The 24" rule does not apply here either

Where more than two NM cables containing two or
more current-carrying conductors are installed, without
maintaining spacing between the cables, through the same
opening in wood framing that is to be sealed with thermal
insulation, caulk, or sealing foam, the allowable ampacity
of each conductor shall be adjusted in accordance with
Table 310.15(B)(3)(a) and the provisions of 310.15(A)(2),
Exception, shall not apply.
Click to expand...
 
Dennis,
i'm reading that Table 310.15(B)(3)(a) applies, where 310.15(A)(2)EX does not

All the nema studies i've rung up show long 2-3-4-5 runs of NM in foam being tested

But i'm 'assuming' here , and i have posed this query to my state authorities as far back as a year ago,(while they continue to inspect my installs at that) and they STILL can not answer me

Time for a formal interpretation .....?

~RJ~
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Pretty clear to me-- if it is caulked then the 10% rule is out and we must derate. The 24" rule does not apply here either
Click to expand...

I agree, when this requirement first entered the code the 10'/10% exception rule was still applicable effectively negating the caulking rule. This was changed in the next code cycle.
 
romex jockey said:
Dennis,
i'm reading that Table 310.15(B)(3)(a) applies, where 310.15(A)(2)EX does not

~RJ~
Click to expand...


That is exactly correct. You must de-rate and the 10% rule is not applicable. Thus a drilled hole with more than 10 current carrying conductor's passing thru and then caulked would require a 50% de-rating. 9 current carrying conductor's and the de-rating is not an issue
 
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