,360 degree rule

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nickelec

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I have an interesting scenario and question for you guys when running service entrance conductors from the utility to a meter Bank if the conduit is encased in two inches of concrete and considered outside the building am I allowed to have more than 360 Degrees if not what would you use to reset the 360 being that it has to be encased in concrete I'm trying to avoid an extremely expensive concrete manhole I guess my main question is does the rule apply to service entrance conductors outside the building

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nickelec said:
I have an interesting scenario and question for you guys. When running service entrance conductors from the utility to a meter Bank, if the conduit is encased in two inches of concrete and considered outside the building, am I allowed to have more than 360 Degrees? If not what would you use to reset the 360 being that it has to be encased in concrete? I'm trying to avoid an extremely expensive concrete manhole. I guess my main question is does the rule apply to service entrance conductors outside the building

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Ahhh, much more comprehensible with punctuation and capitalization.

My guess would be, yes the 360° rule still applies.
 
480sparky said:
Ahhh, much more comprehensible with punctuation and capitalization.

My guess would be, yes the 360° rule still applies.
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Sorry I was making this topic up while driving and was speaking into my phone lol.

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There seems to be no other option then installing the concrete pull box ,that I can think of

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The requirement for encased in concrete comes from the utility, I presume?
Rather than a full manhole could you just go with a pull box/handhole with 2" or thicker lid?
Not nearly as expensive.

Also, the 360 limit is NEC, which would not apply on the POCO side of the service point. Will POCO accept more bends and do you think it could be pulled successfully?
 
Yes the requirement comes from the utility. What type of pull box hang whole do you mean? we're only allowed to use Concrete in this neck of the woods

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nickelec said:
Yes the requirement comes from the utility. What type of pull box hang whole do you mean? we're only allowed to use Concrete in this neck of the woods

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You can get a precast concrete box, AFAIK. If it has to have a floor too, that could be poured.
One thing is not clear to me: Is the run actually inside the footprint of the building? If so NEC requires the concrete encasement too.
 
Yes the run is inside the footprint of the building that's why I'm trying to avoid a concrete or Precast box it's kind of stupid . Putting a concrete box inside of a building that is in my opinion

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nickelec said:
Yes the run is inside the footprint of the building that's why I'm trying to avoid a concrete or Precast box it's kind of stupid . Putting a concrete box inside of a building that is in my opinion

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Well, if you are going to look at it from that perspective, what is really kind of stupid is putting the meter that far inside the building, no? :)
 
I completely agree but again we come across this problem as electricians between us and the engineers and sometimes you just have to do what they want

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These are all great questions, but I can't even begin to get into the stupidity of this engineers on this job I'll explain one problem. I have to get my SECs 75' from utility to meter stack. In my way are about 10 boilers . So engineers want me to run my conduit (2 sets of 3" RMC ) on the floor and then incase it concrete. The only.route I have I need to put in 50 90s. That's why I'm saying putting a concrete box made for burial on the floor seems ridiculous to me. I can't get on there level and just agree. It's taking evreybit of my dignity lol. Don't know what else to do.

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Why not put the service disconnect on the outside wall. The FD's require that and that's the way I do all my designs. Then you can route the conduit from the disconnect overhead, etc.
 
480sparky said:
If there's an engineer involved, why don't the approved plans show a pull point?
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:thumbsup:

Make them do their job. OP shouldn't need to ask us such questions if someone else designed it, but is also good he saw there may be problems with the design.
 
Ragin Cajun said:
Why not put the service disconnect on the outside wall. The FD's require that and that's the way I do all my designs. Then you can route the conduit from the disconnect overhead, etc.
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Poco will not allow see service disconnect ahead of meters they see it as a potential to steal power

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nickelec said:
Poco will not allow see service disconnect ahead of meters they see it as a potential to steal power

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How does your utility deal with the Code requirement of a disconnect ahead of more than 6 meters/disconnects? EUSERC has a similar rule, but it only states that a disconnect cannot be ahead of a SINGLE meter (cold sequence). Ahead of more than one is up to the utility. Just a comment regarding those western utilities that use EUSERC as their construction standards. Not a Code requirement, that I'm aware of.
 
meternerd said:
How does your utility deal with the Code requirement of a disconnect ahead of more than 6 meters/disconnects? EUSERC has a similar rule, but it only states that a disconnect cannot be ahead of a SINGLE meter (cold sequence). Ahead of more than one is up to the utility. Just a comment regarding those western utilities that use EUSERC as their construction standards. Not a Code requirement, that I'm aware of.
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"meter centers" with a service disconnect are likely accepted by most as their "main" is typically designed that they are not all that easy to tap into, but an individual "safety switch" ahead of several meters is easier to tap into and probably not allowed by most utilities.
 
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