3rd Kitchen Appliance Circuit?

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Lbartowski

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This could be a code or design question.

The engineer on a multi-unit residential job I'm doing has 3 kitchen appliance circuits for the following:

10.5 linear feet of countertop
(1) fridge receptacle
(1) small island receptacle

These kitchens aren't big. Is a 3rd kitchen circuit overkill?
 
He has the fridge sharing a circuit with (1) countertop receptacle and the island receptacle.

He also has a dedicated microwave receptacle.

I'm not saying he's wrong, but that's a lot more than when I did residential 20 years ago.
 
What do you care if it is overkill. I am sure the engineer knows that. He is probably just be careful that the owners can plug in microwaves, toaster ovens, coffee makers etc without an issue. Sure 2 will probably work and would be compliant but why argue it.
 
If your customer is asking you to 'value engineer' this, then it is overkill.

If your customer is asking for (and paying for) a high end kitchen, then you can reasonably upsell to a 4th circuit.

In my home the toaster and the microwave have dedicated SABCs. Why? Because it bugs me to heat the microwave motor change pitch when the toaster gets started. Overkill? Certainly! But I was the customer and that is what I wanted to pay for :)

-Jon
 
I guess I should have asked how out of the ordinary it was. It was a plan and spec bid, so the customer paid for it, now I'm just trying to figure out how I'm supposed to get all these circuits across an exposed ceiling the most efficiently. 1 less SABC would be more efficient :) but I guess that's what they want.

Thanks for your input. There aren't many residential electricians at my shop to bounce things off of, so I appreciate you guys weighing in.
 
Lbartowski said:
I guess I should have asked how out of the ordinary it was. It was a plan and spec bid, so the customer paid for it, now I'm just trying to figure out how I'm supposed to get all these circuits across an exposed ceiling the most efficiently. 1 less SABC would be more efficient :) but I guess that's what they want.
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NEC minimum would be 2 circuits unless there is a fancy refrigerator that requires it's own circuit then 3 would be the minimum.
 
4 even might not be to much when you consider the code includes dining room, breakfast nook and even pantry spaces into the 2 or more SABC. So I would not consider 3 overkill.
 
I'd argue that not providing 3 circuits in is violation of 210.11 (A).

I think people fail to realize that the minimum listed requirements do not equate to adequacy or nullify the other adding requirements in the code.

Basically code gives you a starting number. If you know there will be more load, AIC, ect on top of that number than you must go higher to have a legal installation.
 
A lot depends on how the house is occupied. It's just my wife and I and we will never need more than 2 circuits in the kitchen. Now, if we had a bunch of children running around I could see that more would be nice.
 
I currently cannot have my coffee maker and electric kettle on at the same time without tripping a breaker. I'm also known to have the microwave and table top convection oven on, while making coffee and wanting hot water to cook with. If I need a blender or crockpot, I'm in deep doo-doo. If I were to redesign my kitchen, every receptacle would be a dedicated circuit meaning each receptacle of a duplex receptacle device would be a separate circuit.
 
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mbrooke said:
I'd argue that not providing 3 circuits in is violation of 210.11 (A).

I think people fail to realize that the minimum listed requirements do not equate to adequacy or nullify the other adding requirements in the code.

Basically code gives you a starting number. If you know there will be more load, AIC, ect on top of that number than you must go higher to have a legal installation.
Click to expand...
How do the know the potential load on counter top receptacles? The code requires two circuits that's all.
 
infinity said:
How do the know the potential load on counter top receptacles? The code requires two circuits that's all.
Click to expand...


The same way you know that a over the range micro needs its own circuit.

Large amounts of counter space, especially dedicated space for a wine cooler (for example) is indicative of combined load that is likely to exceed 4,800 va.
 
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