400.7 & 400.8

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I say no. You can use a flexible cord to wire a fixture but not if it falls under any of the conditions outlined in 400.8. So a pendant hung fixture suspended with a cord below the ceiling is fine. If the cord runs through a hole in the ceiling to a hidden junction box then it's NG.
 
infinity said:
I say no. You can use a flexible cord to wire a fixture but not if it falls under any of the conditions outlined in 400.8. So a pendant hung fixture suspended with a cord below the ceiling is fine. If the cord runs through a hole in the ceiling to a hidden junction box then it's NG.
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Agreed, seems like a no-brainer. Ok John, we beat that part to death, next part please.;)
 
infinity said:
I say no. You can use a flexible cord to wire a fixture but not if it falls under any of the conditions outlined in 400.8. So a pendant hung fixture suspended with a cord below the ceiling is fine. If the cord runs through a hole in the ceiling to a hidden junction box then it's NG.
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I agree with Robs example
 
I agree with Chris and Rob that 400.7 does not override 400.8.

Also keep in mind that 410.62 applies to cord connected luminaires and lampholders.

Chris
 
OK then we all agree. Fixtures were installed and fed to a j-box above the ceiling so I wrote it up.

Another one of my inspectors went back and told me that they had corrected it and they signed it off. I went back by today and I see the cord going up into the ceiling and call the super over and asked him how that got approved?

He said that they fixed it by slipping a piece of flex over the cord and running it down to the tile. I'm thinking that this is not really a fix, nor is it really meeting the intent of the code. Am I way off base? By the way PITA job since the day they started grading, not that that should have any bearing, just one thing after another.
 
I would still say a violation.
To me, unless it's an industrial install, 400.14 supports the fact that it is a violation in that it specifically allows sleeving in industrial applications.
 
John, along with the others, IMO you could also throw in 400.8(6) for another reason to say no.

Roger
 
I found this ROP. Please read the discussion. I don't really understand what they mean in the Panel Statement.


6-158 Log #652 NEC-P06 Final Action: Reject
(400.8(5) Exception (New) )
_______________________________________________________________
Submitter: Ron L. Janikowski, City of Wausau, Wisconsin / Rep. CMP16
Special Editorial Task Group
Recommendation: Add new Exception to read as follows:
Exception to (5). Flexible cord as part of an assembly not exceeding 6 ft in
length shall be permitted above suspended or dropped ceilings, provided the
space above the ceiling is not in conflict with 300.22.
Substantiation: Security cameras, fire detection and other equipment that is
shipped with molded cord assemblies cannot be installed under current code
rules. I think short pieces of cord, part of a listed assembly should be allowed. I
think a greater problem exists when the contractor tries to hand wire the
equipment.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The substantiation states that some equipment cannot be
installed under current code rules. There are currently provisions in the code
that address this issue and allow installation of cords above suspended ceilings.
The authority having jurisdiction could ultimately allow permission for these
types of installations based on 400.7(A)(3).
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11
 
Code allows you to run flexible cord in a raceway for a short distance, in 'industrial' locations with 'qualified' maintenance. Not much help, I supppose.

The key, to me, is that the box still needs to be accessible. I encountered a situation like the one you describe in a house, where the garage had been converted to a bedroom. There was no way to access the box without tearing apart the hard ceiling- the attic of the house did not continue over the garage.

Yet, I suspect you're referring to 'drop,' or 'suspended' ceilings. There I believe the code needs some editing. We say 'no flex cord' above the ceilings, but we also now say you can't hang anything from the ceiling, either. (The last despite entire Caddy / B-Line product lines designed to help you do exactly that!). So, just where and how are we to transition? Looks to me that we've painted ourselves into a corner.
 
John

Is it one of those fancy pendant luminaires supported by 1/16 cable? If so, all the ones I have seen have instructions and parts for a Code compliant install. The canopy and J-Box sit right above the ceiling and the cord is never exposed. I have to write this one up most of the time and use 110.3(B). Here are two pics.

If it was some home made thing with a strip luminaire, then I would accept an outlet box with a receptacle mounted flush with the ceiling directly above the luminaire just like 410.62(C)(1)


I think the flex sleeve is still a violation. I would write it up with 410.62(C)(1)Pendant J box 1.JPGPendant J box 2.JPG
 
sandsnow said:
John

Is it one of those fancy pendant luminaires supported by 1/16 cable? If so, all the ones I have seen have instructions and parts for a Code compliant install. The canopy and J-Box sit right above the ceiling and the cord is never exposed. I have to write this one up most of the time and use 110.3(B). Here are two pics.

If it was some home made thing with a strip luminaire, then I would accept an outlet box with a receptacle mounted flush with the ceiling directly above the luminaire just like 410.62(C)(1)


I think the flex sleeve is still a violation. I would write it up with 410.62(C)(1)View attachment 5724View attachment 5725
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Sandsnow, the picture less the j-box is exactly what I have. The canopy wouldn't fit on a reqular 3/0 ring. Thanks for the pics.
 
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