400 amp service feeds two buildings.

[gulf0927]

Customer currently has 200 amp service to house. Also has an out building 250 feet away where heavy equipment will be used. Wants a 400 service. At the new meter base, will the line going to the outbuilding be considered a feeder? Thinking I will need a 200A disco for it next to the meter base. Any help appreciated, of course my first 400 amp service is a little more complex.

 

[LarryFine]

At the new meter base, will the line going to the outbuilding be considered a feeder?

If it passes through a disconnect, yes, and requires four wires.

Thinking I will need a 200A disco for it next to the meter base.

Where is the house's existing disconnect?

 

[gulf0927]

If it passes through a disconnect, yes, and requires four wires.


Where is the house's existing disconnect?

At the panel, right inside the basement, about 4 feet from the existing meter base.

 

[LarryFine]

At the panel, right inside the basement, about 4 feet from the existing meter base.

Then you can come directly out of the meter with a second set of service conductors.

 

[Greentagger]

If your AHJ considers 4’ away where conductors enter building. 225.32. Some jurisdictions it is back to back.
Might warrant a call.

 

[electrofelon]

Use 230.40 exception #3 and run two sets of service conductors off the load side of the meter: one for the house and one to serve the other building. You don't need ta disconnect for the one serving the outbuilding, keep it service conductors then you can skip the disconnect and only need three wire

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

Customer currently has 200 amp service to house. Also has an out building 250 feet away where heavy equipment will be used. Wants a 400 service. At the new meter base, will the line going to the outbuilding be considered a feeder? Thinking I will need a 200A disco for it next to the meter base. Any help appreciated, of course my first 400 amp service is a little more complex.

2023NEC
The way you have it worded, it will be a feeder, you will be on the load side of your disconnect so its not a service to the out building.
Wants a new meter base with a disconnect beside it........need a 200A disco for it next to MB...
So, your feeder to the out building will be a feeder from the load side of the 200 A disco. The service conductors stop at the line terminals.

If run PVC, you'll need an EGC and grounding electrode, if available or ground rode or 3/4 rigid pipe.
If you put a disconnect at the out building it can be out side or immediately inside.

Side note; have you considered voltage drop? At that 250 ft. and "heavy equipment".
I suggest an SPD for your heavy equipment, likely to have some electronics.

Is this considered at a dwelling type location....customer has 200 A service to house....
I don't know anything about your city electrical jurisdiction but first responders shall have an emergency disconnect or use the 200A disconnect to meet 230.85 rule and 230.85(E) (1) (2) Marking.

Thanks for reading.
Comments accepted.
TX+MASTER#4544

 

[LarryFine]

2023NEC
The way you have it worded, it will be a feeder, you will be on the load side of your disconnect so its not a service to the out building.

Wants a new meter base with a disconnect beside it........need a 200A disco for it next to MB...
So, your feeder to the out building will be a feeder from the load side of the 200 A disco. The service conductors stop at the line terminals.

I'm suggesting no disco, thus not a feeder, thus no EGC required.

If run PVC, you'll need an EGC and grounding electrode, if available or ground rode or 3/4 rigid pipe.
If you put a disconnect at the out building it can be out side or immediately inside.

I would not depend on buried metallic conduit to act as an EGC.

EGC, electrode(s) and disco are required, not optional.

 

[gulf0927]

Yeah, I actually did half the work two years ago when 400 amp meter bases were impossible to find. Ran quadraplax overhead with a pole halfway in between the run (there is significant rock and granite where he lives, it's out in the woods). No significant electronics. More old school stuff for powder coating and large compressors.

Installed two ground rods at new building. Basically it is running on 100 amps right now, but the line overhead is rated for 200. There is a disco on the exterior of the outbuilding currently, so I'll probably keep going that route and run SER from there to the panel, separate grounds and neutrals. The only run that wouldn't be 4 wire is from the house meter to point of attachment, so I may go with Larry's suggestion on 240.30 just to save money on disconnect.

I'm in PA, so we are still on 2017. No need for disco outside. As far as voltage drop, it is far, about 350 feet total run. I have 1/0 XLP overhead good for 210A, and will run 4/0 SER, but he can probably only run 100A max to keep it under 5% drop.

Thanks for all the responses!

 

[gulf0927]

Correction, 150A max. Keeps it at 4.9% drop.

 

[electrofelon]

You mentioned powder coating, does he run any powder coating ovens? If not and there's no other "extreme" things going on out there, it's hard to imagine a one-man shop getting over 50 or 60 amps.

 

[gulf0927]

Yep, ovens, compressors, etc. We wanted to go heavier just in case, if he gets close to over 100 amps, then we wanted the wire to be sufficient. I can always put it on a 150 breaker, but either way, going to 400 is better. He has several ovens.

 

[gulf0927]

Well, got a fly in the ointment gentlemen. The customer decided to tap off the feeder going to the outbuilding with 100 amp quadraplex to feed another building. He swapped out the two-tap Ilscos with three-tap, and fed a swcond outbuilding. The quadraplax is about 30 feet away, connects to a mast and a 100 outdoor disco. Just checking to see if an inspector will call us on this.

Dark buidling is where the 200 amp disco will go (will replace 100 amp disco and wire).

Red building is where he has 100 amp run to.