400 amps 480volts

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nolabama

nolabama

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new orleans la
we gotta land a panel tommorow - its 480v 400 amp - we have no saftey policy whatsoever where i work - i doubt we can do more than turn the main off in this panel - the plant guy probably doenst even have a penta bolt to get into the 225kva transformer to turn our panel off - i am resereved to not doing this, they can go :mad: themselves - saftey gear will include tee-shirts and long pants - i have seen the p g & e arc flash demo with 480 cross phases - im sorta venting at the moment - bear with me please - this is the question i have, relativly speaking with the main breaker off and the buss bar de-energized how safe is this? am i overreacing due to the lack of knowlegde?
 
nolabama

nolabama

Senior Member
Location
new orleans la
landing a branch circut on a breaker- taking the dead front off, landing the circut - ive already sent the wire to the panel with it hot - i think im overreacting - but everything seems to point that you not supposed to open em up without ppe on
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Your landing a branch circuit in a panel with the main off? Sounds easy to me....

I can't even count how many times I've landed branch circuits in hot panels, I thought it was common practice? If I could shut the main off everytime that'd sure be nice.....
 
nolabama

nolabama

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Location
new orleans la
thanks guys - i was mainly venting due to the fact that i was explaining to the forman that you could tie a short distance of #12 to a 450' run of #6 that is overcurrent protected at 20 amps and the #12 would not "act as a fuse" whist he was taking pictures of a timeclock to take back to the office to have some help wiring it - after discussions like this in the field i tend to discount the validity of their opinions on such things as my saftey

and i thought you needed ppe to even take the dead front off
 
augie47

augie47

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Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
nolabama said:
whist he was taking pictures of a timeclock
Click to expand...
probably to include with your next (& last) check :)
nolabama said:
and i thought you needed ppe to even take the dead front off
Click to expand...

You do. As I recall, you need some type PPE to "throw" the breaker.

Many of us work these panels "hot" everyday, but that does not reduce the fact that there is a danger nor does it reduce the fact that proper PPE gear should be worn.
Taking all "today's world" factors into account, without terribly midigating circumstances, the panel should not be worked while energized.
In a more "real" world, it might be good advice for you not to work the panel unless you are completely comfortable with the situation, and have PPE.
 
mdshunk

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
Yeah, I'm not so sure I'd take important safety advice, or advice of any sort, from a guy who can't wire a time clock without someone spoon feeding it to him.
 
nolabama

nolabama

Senior Member
Location
new orleans la
his comment was "make that panel up" while asking when the last time i made a time clock up was...

i work hot a lot - i do not like to - i get hit a lot - so i try to minimize what i do hot these days - when i fished the wires to the hot panel i had a guy who had never done electrical work before as a helper (1st day)- i do not work with 480 much - as stated we have no saftey policy so i am not familiar with the real dangers of doing things like this are other than what i find on the web

thanks guys for you advice
 
iaov

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
I've seen this done with metal tape with spetacular and expensive results!! :DYour forman sounds like a doozy. I'ld be suspicious of anything he told me.
 
zog

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
nolabama said:
and i thought you needed ppe to even take the dead front off
Click to expand...

You do, and in order to do this job you will need to have a justifiable reason for working this panel energized. Even if what you are physically working on is not energized other parts in that panel are (Line side of the breaker). If you are working insdie of the Limited Approach Boundary (LAB) of live parts you are working on live parts. The LAB for 480V is 3'6".

You need to have a justifiable reason to work it hot and fill out and post at the jobsite an Energized Electrical Work Permit (EEWP) to comply with NFPA 70E. Of course all the PPE necessary will need to be used too.

Now I have been around this forum long enough that I know a bunch of Manly Men will chime in and say "thats a bunch of _______, I work hot everyday and never heard of an EEWP" or "If we didnt do this job hot we wouldnt get any work" or some other similar old school walking through the snow uphill both ways response but if you want the correct answer to the question you asked and the concerns you have all you need to do is read the NFPA 70E.
 
nolabama

nolabama

Senior Member
Location
new orleans la
thank you zog - yours was the answer i was looking for - and on that point why do we have 11 page threads on how to bond mc in plastic boxes but when it comes to "hot work" we throw the book out the window, so to speak

but when it comes to violating nec xyz.46 FPN (4) we go beserk
 
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