400 V 60HZ 3P motor able to run on 440V 60Hz supply

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JasonSoul

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Singapore
Hi, i new to this forum as i'm search for some information regarding 400V 60 HZ 3P motor running on 440v 60 Hz supply.

I know that there a -/+ 10 % tolerance voltage allowable for the motor but it will be running in the maximum allowable voltage.

Will it cause any damage to the motor in long term or any other thing i need to look into consideration?

Anyone can advice?
 

topgone

Senior Member
Hi, i new to this forum as i'm search for some information regarding 400V 60 HZ 3P motor running on 440v 60 Hz supply.

I know that there a -/+ 10 % tolerance voltage allowable for the motor but it will be running in the maximum allowable voltage.

Will it cause any damage to the motor in long term or any other thing i need to look into consideration?

Anyone can advice?

Pictures paint a thousand words! Please post the nameplate and you'll get lots of answers.:)
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
There are 4 countries in the world that use 380V (400 nominal) and 60Hz; Brazil, South Korea, Peru and Trinidad/Tobago.

Korean exporters tend to know better, but what happens a lot is that Brazilian exporters do not pay attention to details on used equipment (or don't care), so people in other countries buy surplus machinery from Brazil and it arrives with these relatively oddball motor voltages, oddball in that they do not work well for the rest of the world.

A motor provides torque based on a direct relationship to the ratio of voltage and frequency it was designed for, typically +-10%. So a motor designed for 380V 50Hz is a ratio of 7.6:1, a motor designed for 460V 60hz is also a ratio of 7.67:1, so virtually identical. Even if a motor is designed for 400V 50Hz, that's 8:1 but still within the range of acceptability for a 480V 60Hz supply as we have here in the US. That means motors with those combinations, even with variations within tolerances, are going to work fine in either place, other than the difference in speed.

But a motor designed for Brazil's 380V 60Hz supply (possibly with a nameplate voltage of 400V 60Hz), is operating on a ratio of 6.67:1, which is well below the -10% range of acceptability for a 480V supply. But 480V is the current standard for the US, 440V is no longer our standard but might be somewhere else. If you TRULY have a 440V 60Hz supply, you are right on the ragged edge of acceptability as far as the V/Hz ratio is concerned. 440V 60Hz is 6.6 V/Hz, the motor is designed for 6.67 V/Hz, so it should work, but will be a little weak on torque. So if your motor is running fully loaded all of the time, I might be concerned. If your motor is only loaded at 75-80% as many are, I would not worry about it.

All that said, a more careful examination of the actual motor nameplate and what you REALLY have as a supply voltage is definitely in order here, guessing and assuming is asking for trouble.
 

donaldelectrician

Senior Member
There are 4 countries in the world that use 380V (400 nominal) and 60Hz; Brazil, South Korea, Peru and Trinidad/Tobago.

Korean exporters tend to know better, but what happens a lot is that Brazilian exporters do not pay attention to details on used equipment (or don't care), so people in other countries buy surplus machinery from Brazil and it arrives with these relatively oddball motor voltages, oddball in that they do not work well for the rest of the world.

A motor provides torque based on a direct relationship to the ratio of voltage and frequency it was designed for, typically +-10%. So a motor designed for 380V 50Hz is a ratio of 7.6:1, a motor designed for 460V 60hz is also a ratio of 7.67:1, so virtually identical. Even if a motor is designed for 400V 50Hz, that's 8:1 but still within the range of acceptability for a 480V 60Hz supply as we have here in the US. That means motors with those combinations, even with variations within tolerances, are going to work fine in either place, other than the difference in speed.

But a motor designed for Brazil's 380V 60Hz supply (possibly with a nameplate voltage of 400V 60Hz), is operating on a ratio of 6.67:1, which is well below the -10% range of acceptability for a 480V supply. But 480V is the current standard for the US, 440V is no longer our standard but might be somewhere else. If you TRULY have a 440V 60Hz supply, you are right on the ragged edge of acceptability as far as the V/Hz ratio is concerned. 440V 60Hz is 6.6 V/Hz, the motor is designed for 6.67 V/Hz, so it should work, but will be a little weak on torque. So if your motor is running fully loaded all of the time, I might be concerned. If your motor is only loaded at 75-80% as many are, I would not worry about it.

All that said, a more careful examination of the actual motor nameplate and what you REALLY have as a supply voltage is definitely in order here, guessing and assuming is asking for trouble.



If applicable to you , The 440 XFMR most probably has Taps . I have seen 440 taped down to 380 and used on 50 hz as well .



Don
 

topgone

Senior Member
If applicable to you , The 440 XFMR most probably has Taps . I have seen 440 taped down to 380 and used on 50 hz as well .



Don

The danger of being able to set the voltage to whatever one wishes is frying the motor earlier than it would have been!:weeping: :weeping:

What @jraef said, we need to keep in mind that motors will be very happy if supplied with the right voltage and the right frequency (V/F the same).
 

donaldelectrician

Senior Member
The danger of being able to set the voltage to whatever one wishes is frying the motor earlier than it would have been!:weeping: :weeping:

What @jraef said, we need to keep in mind that motors will be very happy if supplied with the right voltage and the right frequency (V/F the same).



I do not follow you . Setting the Voltage to the Motors Voltage is not Dangerous .

Are you are objecting to the Frequency ? I understood he said 60hz .




Donald
 
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