400a service question

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regnar

regnar

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Location
Houston
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Electrician, Service Tech
Hi folks.
Im doing my 400a residential and from the meter splicing the wires in the gutter and then to the (2) disconnects. Since the hots are coming from a double lug can injust pass it trough’s the gutter.
See pics please. Ty.

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Welcome to the forum.

Why not just run wires directly from the meter terminals to each disconnect?

What is your question?
 
That would be ideal, but the company wouldn’t do it. They always left 2 nipples side by side and the ug a couple feet next to it.
My question is if i can just go from the double lug in the meter, have 1 of the lines trough the gutter and to the disconnect without using the tap in the gutter


https://postimg.cc/gallery/6GkhPBt
 
IMG-4752.jpg

This, can be done without the tap in the gutter?
I understand the neutral because the bonding. But the lines should be fine right?
 
regnar said:
My question is if i can just go from the double lug in the meter, have 1 of the lines trough the gutter and to the disconnect without using the tap in the gutter
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Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. That's why the meter has double lugs.

We often see this with one disco on each side of the meter, wired the same way.

You can connect the common GECs to each disco's neutral with tapped jumpers.
 
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LarryFine said:
You can connect the common GECs to each disco's neutral with tapped jumpers.
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Thanks thanks thanks. 1 more,
So if i dont tap the neutral in the gutter, then I don't do bonding there?. Isn’t t that required there too?
 
Buck Parrish said:
The taps in the gutter should NOT be used as it is redundant and it could cause Eddy Currents.
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Hmmm, I don't follow you here Buck, it's just parallel conductors. I do see the gutter taps as being a complete waste, but I don't see an issue other than that. Note that there is a technical difference between the two methods:. With the taps , we have parallel conductors from the meter lugs to the taps, and then 230.40 exception #2 from the taps to the disconnects. Without the two taps it's 2:30.40 exception two from the meter lugs to the disconnect lugs.
 
regnar said:
Thanks thanks thanks. 1 more,
So if i dont tap the neutral in the gutter, then I don't do bonding there?. Isn’t t that required there too?
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Be careful with your wording. You have to think carefully about you what you mean by "do bonding there". The gutter is on the line side of the service disconnects so it is always bonded to the neutral, it's just a matter of whether it's directly bonded or bonded by a bonding jumper. IMO the best method is just have a terminal bar mounted right in the gutter and use it also to make your taps. Looks like that's what you have but I can't tell if it's insulated from the gutter or not. You could land your gecs on that bar too.
 
Yes it has a terminal bar with all the gec, isn’t insulated, I scratch the paint before mounting. Also here the utility here doesn’t allow ground wire inside the meter can. I understand that is doing bonding because pf the frame. But the inspector (mostly city) they want the bonding done by wire.
So then to achieve that i need to tap the neutral in gutter right?. And following the others replies, the Lines i can just lass it through from the lugs since splicing those will be just redundant, right?
Thanks
IMG_4763.jpegIMG_4764.jpeg
 
I would throw the gutter in the gutter!
You could pop another hole in the meter can and use LBs to enter each disconnect.
If using the gutter, I don't see the need in splicing in there. Just go straight to each disco.
That's a $100 unneeded Polaris tap.
 
regnar said:
Yes it has a terminal bar with all the gec, isn’t insulated, I scratch the paint before mounting. Also here the utility here doesn’t allow ground wire inside the meter can. I understand that is doing bonding because pf the frame. But the inspector (mostly city) they want the bonding done by wire.
So then to achieve that i need to tap the neutral in gutter right?. And following the others replies, the Lines i can just lass it through from the lugs since splicing those will be just redundant, right?
Thanks
View attachment 2568876View attachment 2568877
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Sorry, I am not understanding your post. Aren't the neutrals already spliced/tapped on the bar in the gutter and also the GEC there? What is the question?
 
The question is all that can be avoided.
If could just pass trough the neutral from the double lugs to 1 of each disco. (But if thats done then there is no bonding in the gutter). Isn’t both required? Or can be done only in the disconnects if neutral not tapped in gutter. Thanks.
 
regnar said:
The question is all that can be avoided.
If could just pass trough the neutral from the double lugs to 1 of each disco. (But if thats done then there is no bonding in the gutter). Isn’t both required? Or can be done only in the disconnects if neutral not tapped in gutter. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I see 3 options:

1. Tap the neutrals in the gutter to bond the gutter. For this you can land them to a bar mounted to the gutter, or splice/tap the two neutrals to a properly sized bonding jumper that goes to the gutter. It seems this is what you have bit you are trying to avoid.

2. Run a SSBJ from the meter to the gutter.

3. Run a SSBJ from the disconnects to the gutter. The code is vague on how exactly to do this when you have two service disconnect enclosures, but many would say you size each SSBJ to the ungrounded conductors serving each respective service disconnect.
 
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