Lyle Nisly
New User
- Location
- Nebraska
- Occupation
- Electrician
I would love to speak with the folks that wrote this code and ask them personally what their intent was. I am wondering if I am the only person to question the apparent prevalent interpretation of this code section? 410.110 states that for luminaires recessed in walls or ceilings, We are to comply with 410.115-410.126.... My contention is that the Jbox and whip referenced and allowed in 410.117C ought to allow for a jbox and whip (conduit body) installed for the light for the Tap conductors That are feeding the listed light referenced in 410.118. These items ought to be looked at as integral or necessary for the listed luminaire installation because they sure will not work without it. Currently our state (Im sure it is not the only one) has adopted the position that it means only a jbox UL listed, a part of, and attached to the listed luminaire is allowed up there. This means that either we need to run the tap conductors into and out of the tiny wire space provided by the light (Most of them are pretty small) . This possibly violates wire fill; I have been told that is what some electricians are doing ... (Running their conduit body and then transitioning from conduit to flex in and out to feed the luminaires). Or we need to install access panels to access these 410.117C "Tap Conductor" j boxes, or we need to rough in a j box down into the ceiling pointing down and then whip to the light through the back of this j box (best option of all three) My reason I disagree with the currant interpretation is that ... How is this considered safer? Nor does it help the aesthetics...
Almost all flat panels and most other recessed lay in LED lights are all serviced from the top. meaning they must be taken down or to be serviced anyway.How is this code simplifying this? Would not a single 6' luminaire whip That is easily taken out of the circuit and or the light... be infinitely safer than attempting to remove the in and out tap conductors from the light? Doesn't that delete the purpose of the little required light disconnects? The luminaire could be easily disconnected by the required little disconnect in the fixture, removed and replaced.
I seem to be in the minority, but I personally think the proper interpretation of this code section allows for the JBox and whip referenced in 410.117C But then moves to 410.118 to state that "All other J boxes" not an integral part of the lighting system is not allowed. I would actually agree that boxes not pertaining to the lights do not need to be there. But to restrict the ones necessary to the function of the lighting circuit is kind of silly. One other thought..., unless we bring the plumbers and sprinkler fitters and hvac trades ect . into compliance of the intent of this code, the purpose and intent of this code is rendered null and pointless (Because they will still continue to consider these lights their access points in a hard lid ceiling.) Has it been incorporated into their code? This interpretation of "no boxes for the lights other than the one on the light itself", is placing undue hardship on the very people who should be qualified to remove the fixtures for replacement or service. Also, it potentially violates the listed manufacturer instructions for box fill on these lights.
Now we are telling the Architects/engineers that they must install access panels everywhere thus unnecessarily ruining the aesthetics of the finished hard lid ceiling. I think there needs to be an amendment to this code changing the last 2 words of this code from listed luminaire to lighting system. What are your thoughts? Have a great Day
Almost all flat panels and most other recessed lay in LED lights are all serviced from the top. meaning they must be taken down or to be serviced anyway.How is this code simplifying this? Would not a single 6' luminaire whip That is easily taken out of the circuit and or the light... be infinitely safer than attempting to remove the in and out tap conductors from the light? Doesn't that delete the purpose of the little required light disconnects? The luminaire could be easily disconnected by the required little disconnect in the fixture, removed and replaced.
I seem to be in the minority, but I personally think the proper interpretation of this code section allows for the JBox and whip referenced in 410.117C But then moves to 410.118 to state that "All other J boxes" not an integral part of the lighting system is not allowed. I would actually agree that boxes not pertaining to the lights do not need to be there. But to restrict the ones necessary to the function of the lighting circuit is kind of silly. One other thought..., unless we bring the plumbers and sprinkler fitters and hvac trades ect . into compliance of the intent of this code, the purpose and intent of this code is rendered null and pointless (Because they will still continue to consider these lights their access points in a hard lid ceiling.) Has it been incorporated into their code? This interpretation of "no boxes for the lights other than the one on the light itself", is placing undue hardship on the very people who should be qualified to remove the fixtures for replacement or service. Also, it potentially violates the listed manufacturer instructions for box fill on these lights.
Now we are telling the Architects/engineers that they must install access panels everywhere thus unnecessarily ruining the aesthetics of the finished hard lid ceiling. I think there needs to be an amendment to this code changing the last 2 words of this code from listed luminaire to lighting system. What are your thoughts? Have a great Day
