410.24(B)

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chris kennedy

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
I have a situation where I have T5 luminiares that come with a "Mud Kit" similiar to a square-round mud ring that get plastered over and leaves a 1?" round opening to access the wiring in the 1900 box behind it. The title art only says;

(B) Access to Boxes. Electric-discharge and LED luminaires
surface mounted over concealed outlet, pull, or junction boxes
and designed not to be supported solely by the outlet box shall
be provided with suitable openings in the back of the luminaire
to provide access to the wiring in the box.

I seem to remember something about if the box has joints in it and a dimension for the 'suitable opening'. Been looking around 314.

And before anyone asks if they are 410.6 compliant they are made in Belgium and listed in Canada.:huh:

Thanks
 
From the look of those instructions it appears that you cannot have any splices in the box after the fixture is hung.
 
While 1.75" is kind of a small hole, it is a common size I have found in the K/O in the back of a few liner fluorescent fixtures, the problem will be the length of the conductors spliced in the box and if they can be retrieved by a small hook to pull them out enough to remove the wire nut and or to remove or install another wire if ever needed?

This is also a common problem when we add an extension rings to an existing box that when it was originally installed the wire met the required length of 3"beyond the outside of the box but now has to be accessed inside of the extension ring as they no longer reach out of the box.

"Suitable opening" is ambiguous and has no definition which leaves it open to interpretation so I'm not sure how you enforce such a requirement, but I believe the requirement of 3" out of the box for the length of the conductors spliced in the box is the best point I can see? 300.14 also not sure of how the accessibility of the raceways are looked at for future pulling of conductors, because the fixture is still removable for this?
 
I think once you mud in that ring you will have an accessibility problem as it says in the definition for wiring methods:

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of
being removed or exposed without damaging the building
structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure
or finish of the building.
Click to expand...

This is clearly enclosing the box by the finish of the building that will make the box inaccessible. 314.29

But the 1.75" hole could be considered accessible? as a single gang box opening is barely 2" with some special purpose box's even smaller, but the HID fixture requirement I believe was with the thought if you did need to get back in the box for removing or pulling more wires the fixture could be removed, but with this method you would have to dig out this cover which would go against the definition above?

Well if you do get tagged on it you can always use those 4" flat square covers that come with some track light starters that can attach to the box and has a 1/2" K/O in the middle, I think.
 
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chris kennedy said:
I agree but am looking in 300 and 314 for something that phrohibits that???
Click to expand...
The only one I can think of...

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures
to Be Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole
enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained
in them can be rendered accessible without removing
any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without
excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that
is to be used to establish the finished grade.

Exception does not apply
Click to expand...
 
Update; Just got the mud kits, hole is smaller than I thought. Already have the 1900 boxes wired with ENT and #12 stranded in and out.:rant:

IMG_01611_zps4211b479.jpg
 
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