410.4 (D) Bathtub & Shower Areas

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
I have a problem with the 3' horizontal zone and a wall fixture being required to be rated "Damp Location".... my fuss being, wont the drywall and other building material fail way before a non damp rating fixture? So... with this in thought, why require ALL fixtures in this zone to be damp location required? I'm only referring to securely mounted wall fixtures...
 
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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I suspect the fear is rusting that could potential affect the ground on the fixture. Sheetrock esp. the moisture resistant stuff will take forever to go bad unless it is drenched in water.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
I suspect the fear is rusting that could potential affect the ground on the fixture. Sheetrock esp. the moisture resistant stuff will take forever to go bad unless it is drenched in water.
Im confused on the 3' damp location fixture requirement... if sheetrock is good enough, so should a fixture, and why just 3'? why not the entire bathroom?
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
If I had to guess....

I would say the 3' zone is due to the steam generated/released when a person showers/baths





 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
If I had to guess....

I would say the 3' zone is due to the steam generated/released when a person showers/baths





How the hell you been?!?! So the steam only travels 3' then dissipates? :) Believe me, if sheetrock is okay for a damp location, then a light fixture should be as well....

I get the grounding integrity of a solidly hung wall fixture, what I don't get is a damp location requirement.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
How the hell you been?!?!
Busy.....maybe I'll start a thread?


So the steam only travels 3' then dissipates? :) Believe me, if sheetrock is okay for a damp location, then a light fixture should be as well....

I get the grounding integrity of a solidly hung wall fixture, what I don't get is a damp location requirement.
That doesn't make a whole lotta sense now, does it? :?

LOL

I had to run out - mid thought - so i just tossed the log on the fire and ran!

To re-phrase....

If I had to guess....
I would say the 3' zone is due to the steam generated/released when a person showers/baths...in conjunction with a poorly wired fired, could led to injury or even death....for whatever reason, someone tries to touch the shower diverter and a live part of the fixtures canopy. Maybe the steam thing is not even a factor here?

I do realize I could have a switch WITHIN that 3' zone and be totally legal.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
I do realize I could have a switch WITHIN that 3' zone and be totally legal.
Or even worse, a receptacle! :) Cheers!

This is kind of my point, what makes a wall hung fixture outcasted of the other items mentioned? As a side note, this all started because an inspector told us we couldn't have a fixture outside of a tub area. :)
 
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infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Busy.....maybe I'll start a thread?




That doesn't make a whole lotta sense now, does it? :?

LOL

I had to run out - mid thought - so i just tossed the log on the fire and ran!

To re-phrase....

If I had to guess....
I would say the 3' zone is due to the steam generated/released when a person showers/baths...in conjunction with a poorly wired fired, could led to injury or even death....for whatever reason, someone tries to touch the shower diverter and a live part of the fixtures canopy. Maybe the steam thing is not even a factor here?

I do realize I could have a switch WITHIN that 3' zone and be totally legal.
Welcome back. :cool:
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
I gotta say he , like many senior members including you, has taught me a lot without ever being condescending or mean. I appreciate him and all you guys.
Im young, I just want to learn the trade to the best of my ability, and I've learned more than just code here.... respect, and we all make mistakes and cant possibly know everything... I know, that was hard to say. :)
 
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celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Or even worse, a receptacle! :) Cheers!

This is kind of my point, what makes a wall hung fixture outcasted of the other items mentioned? As a side note, this all started because an inspector told us we couldn't have a fixture outside of a tub area. :)

...maybe.....
:?
It's got something to do with the fixture not being mistaken for a grab bar or a towel hook?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Welcome back Celtic--:thumbsup:

I also think the steam is the issue. Sheetrock is not metallic and doesn't rust but there is special sheetrock used in bath areas. The sheetrock is also protected with paint that tolerates steam better than the cheap metals on fixtures.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
Welcome back Celtic--:thumbsup:

I also think the steam is the issue. Sheetrock is not metallic and doesn't rust but there is special sheetrock used in bath areas. The sheetrock is also protected with paint that tolerates steam better than the cheap metals on fixtures.
Sooo.... what about outdoor wall lights? :) They maybe damp location rated, but are still open to moisture.


Weak case, but i'm just curious why they found the need for a 3' zone....
 
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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Sooo.... what about outdoor wall lights? :) What makes a fixture in a bathroom 3' within a tub so unique?
The steam..... Outdoor lights must be either damp or wet location and yes they rust also. Not sure where you are going. I am sure that in most bathrooms it might be unnecessary to be damp location but it is code. I guess the recep. are generally low enough that the steam may not be an issue.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
The steam..... Outdoor lights must be either damp or wet location and yes they rust also. Not sure where you are going. I am sure that in most bathrooms it might be unnecessary to be damp location but it is code. I guess the recep. are generally low enough that the steam may not be an issue.

I'm just trying to understand how they came up with the 3' zone, pretty much it... I just don't understand how you can have a material installed in a bathroom that will rot well before a fixture will,, yet require a damp location fixture... that is all...
 
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