410.8

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stickboy1375 said:
I figured we have ALL been around long enough to know its OCP, and most panels contain OCP devices... :roll:

was referring to 240.24 (D) and even though it is worded as "such as" i dont think I could find a inspector to give a go ahead and install a panel with OCD in a clothes closet.
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Sorry doesn't say that either. Simply says, ...shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as a clothes closets.

As long as you maintain all of the required clearances....

And remeber you guys are the ones that keep telling us inspectors that we can't predict the future.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Sorry doesn't say that either. Simply says, ...shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as a clothes closets.

As long as you maintain all of the required clearances....

And remeber you guys are the ones that keep telling us inspectors that we can't predict the future.
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It was more of a comparison to sandsnow's definition of a clothes closet than anything... :grin:
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Your comment leads one to believe that this is code. I just want to make sure that others here understand that this is your interpretation as an inspector. Not all inspectors will agree with that interpretation and the NEC does not support it.

If you had a bedroom with a closet in it but no closet rod you would allow a light fixture in it without regards to 410.8???
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I don't see how the NEC does not support my interp. I think it's left open. The section talks about a clothes hanging rod in defining the storage space.

The rooms or closets that are usually in question are not located in bedrooms. Usually in an apartment off the kitchen or living room. Floor to ceiling shelves.

A small room off of a bedroom is going to be a closet unless you are in some megabucks house.
 
sandsnow said:
I don't see how the NEC does not support my interp. I think it's left open. The section talks about a clothes hanging rod in defining the storage space.

The rooms or closets that are usually in question are not located in bedrooms. Usually in an apartment off the kitchen or living room. Floor to ceiling shelves.

A small room off of a bedroom is going to be a closet unless you are in some megabucks house.
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Shelving is JUST as important as a rod is.... they go hand in hand...
 
Look at it this way, if you read 410.8 (D) 1-4, they ALL mention a measurement from the luminaire and the nearest point of storage, If you look at Fig. 410.8 it shows how to determine the storage space, weather a rod OR shelfing are actually installed or not.
 
sandsnow said:
The rooms or closets that are usually in question are not located in bedrooms. Usually in an apartment off the kitchen or living room. Floor to ceiling shelves.
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Well I think we are on the same page. The confusion was that this thread is about a clothes closet. My feeling is if it's in a bedroom I don't care if it has a rod or not-- I will wire it as a clothes closet because that is what it will be.

I understand if the rooms are not in bedrooms then it would probably not be a clothes closet unless it had a rod. In fact, I got called on a light in a closet off the kitchen because the inspector said it could be a clothes closet. I told him it was a pantry not a clothes closet and he could not change that fact. He finally agreed.

The blueprints will usually define the space
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Well I think we are on the same page. The confusion was that this thread is about a clothes closet. My feeling is if it's in a bedroom I don't care if it has a rod or not-- I will wire it as a clothes closet because that is what it will be.

I understand if the rooms are not in bedrooms then it would probably not be a clothes closet unless it had a rod. In fact, I got called on a light in a closet off the kitchen because the inspector said it could be a clothes closet. I told him it was a pantry not a clothes closet and he could not change that fact. He finally agreed.

The blueprints will usually define the space
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Yes I agree with you on the pantry thing. And yes we use the room name on the prints to define the room.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Look at it this way, if you read 410.8 (D) 1-4, they ALL mention a measurement from the luminaire and the nearest point of storage, If you look at Fig. 410.8 it shows how to determine the storage space, weather a rod OR shelfing are actually installed or not.
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Yes but the storage space is defined with the rod.
 
sandsnow said:
Yes but the storage space is defined with the rod.
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Perhaps this will help in the future.

2008 NEC said:
Article 100 Definitions
Clothes Closet-- a non-habitable room or space intended primarily for storage of garments and apparel.
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Still a bit ambiguous--we keep talking about the intent of the code now we are talking about the intent of a room or closet. Open to debate I think.
 
stickboy1375 said:
After rereading the section a few more times, looks like the adjustable shelves is the least of my worries, since I have to use 12 min or the depth of the shelf... this is going to be a problem, and hopefully not mine...:grin:
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Since you're using flourcescent lighting, the minimum space is 6" between the fixture and the nearest point of a storage space.
410.8(D)(2)

steve
 
hillbilly said:
Since you're using flourcescent lighting, the minimum space is 6" between the fixture and the nearest point of a storage space.
410.8(D)(2)

steve
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Steve I think stickboy was referring to the shelf depth when he said 12"

Originally Posted by stickboy1375
After rereading the section a few more times, looks like the adjustable shelves is the least of my worries, since I have to use 12 min or the depth of the shelf... this is going to be a problem, and hopefully not mine...:grin:
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Dennis Alwon said:
Perhaps this will help in the future.



Still a bit ambiguous--we keep talking about the intent of the code now we are talking about the intent of a room or closet. Open to debate I think.
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Interesting. Finally a definition. New for the 2008, huh?? Not in the 2005.

So the linen closet issue would still be open to debate. Unless you go to a lot of toga parties.

Looks like I'll have to eat crow on my rod being qualifier for the closet.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The blueprints will usually define the space
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Yes, but it is still up to the AHJ to determine the actual use of the room. I had a plan check just yesterday that showed a room with a bathroom, and a clothes closet, and a smoke detector and was labeled "Gym".

We require the same clearances for lights in a pantry as we do in a closet.
 
cowboyjwc said:
We require the same clearances for lights in a pantry as we do in a closet.
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And is that an amendment or just something you do. There is no code that requires that although it probably is not a bad idea. I never understood why it only applied to clothes closets.

My pantry situation had the clearance it just wasn't a totally enclosed fixture and they wanted it changed. That would be wrong to require that so I fought it and won.
 
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