416 Volt

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416 or did you mean to say 4,160? In my area most data centers have either 12KV or 21KV services which are standard utility distribution voltages. A data center that is not fed with medium voltage would not be considered a large data center.
 
captainwireman said:
I couldn't get a clear a answer on this one. Why would a large data center use a 416 volt main feed?
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Unfortunately, they don't have a 277 volt server yet.:happysad: 240 volts is within a standard operating voltage for servers. Ie, many are built for 90-250 volt operating range. By using the maximum voltage and connecting them phase to neutral (415 volts phase-phase) you end up with a much cheaper and economical distribution system; compared to a typical 120/208 system which requires extra panel boards along with 480-208 step down transformers. Even though 416 volts is slightly less efficient then 480, omitting transformers and larger cabling near the servers point of use actually ends up being more efficient.

In addition to the servers nothing is really lost as most lighting ballasts are rated 120-277, so 240 volts would not be an issue for them. Same with single phase heaters and motors which a readily available in 240 volt versions. 480 volt motors might need a buck boost to bring up the voltage, however, it still comes out cost effective.
 
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mbrooke said:
... 480 volt motors might need a buck boost to bring up the voltage, however, it still comes out cost effective.
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Yes, but there are no 480V motors in a server!

At a big "server farm" (Data Center) there would typically be a separate service for the facilities loads, the HVAC, lighting, etc. It's substantial in and of itself, but from the MV or HV distribution point, they separate the services with different transformers; the 416Y240V services being dedicated to the server racks for the reasons mentioned (plus better load balancing) and then 480Y277 and/or 208Y120 for the more conventional loads.

Google's Data Center in Oregon. I worked on a much much smaller one here in the Bay Area, but got to tour this one in advance to learn what they expected. I was blown away to be honest, I had no idea how much it takes to facilitate all the porn surfing* that goes on in the world.

Typical Server cell:
11719677-large.jpg

Data Center:
1680746-slide-google-datacenter-tech-02.jpg

Overall facilities mechanical:
1680746-slide-google-datacenter-tech-05.jpg1680746-slide-google-datacenter-tech-10.jpg

*When you go into the lobby at many of the Google facilities, there is a projector displaying the search terms that people are using all across the world at any given moment, streaming by in an upward scroll (no results, just the stuff people type into the search box). It's hard to read if you are only there for a minute or so, but if they make you wait, your eyes can start to track it enough to read much of it. 90% porn related...
 
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Jraef said:
Yes, but there are no 480V motors in a server!

At a big "server farm" (Data Center) there would typically be a separate service for the facilities loads, the HVAC, lighting, etc. It's substantial in and of itself, but from the MV or HV distribution point, they separate the services with different transformers; the 416Y240V services being dedicated to the server racks for the reasons mentioned (plus better load balancing) and then 480Y277 and/or 208Y120 for the more conventional loads.

Google's Data Center in Oregon. I worked on a much much smaller one here in the Bay Area, but got to tour this one in advance to learn what they expected. I was blown away to be honest, I had no idea how much it takes to facilitate all the porn surfing* that goes on in the world.

Typical Server cell:
View attachment 10946

Data Center:
View attachment 10947

Overall facilities mechanical:
View attachment 10948View attachment 10949

*When you go into the lobby at many of the Google facilities, there is a projector displaying the search terms that people are using all across the world at any given moment, streaming by in an upward scroll (no results, just the stuff people type into the search box). It's hard to read if you are only there for a minute or so, but if they make you wait, your eyes can start to track it enough to read much of it. 90% porn related...
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I was referring to HVAC loads in the event this system feeds them as well. Notice I brought up lighting ballasts and heaters, something a server doesn't have.
 
captainwireman said:
Just for clarification, 416 volts, no typo. Thanks for the information. I do disdain the "it's more efficient" answer with no further reason or information.
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Well, how about "240V wye takes less wire and fewer breaker poles for the same than 240V delta"?
The 416V just comes along for the ride, since the loads cannot take even as high as 277V for the wye portion of a 480Y/277 system.
Note that 220.5 does not list 416Y/240 as one of its standard system voltages. That does not prevent you from using it, it just gives an indication of what the common practice had been before data centers came along and started using more power than factories.
 
captainwireman said:
Just for clarification, 416 volts, no typo. Thanks for the information. I do disdain the "it's more efficient" answer with no further reason or information.
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Why? Just wondering :blink: While I can not speak for your project, the ones I have done do involve a gain.

> Single pole breakers over doubles= 2x more circuits per panel board, so fewer panels
> Phase and egc wire size is halved
> zero transformer losses, lower electric bill
> no money to spend buying, lifting and installing transformer
> 4 wires for 3 circuits to 6 receptacles over 12 wires 6 circuits for 6 receptacles.
> lower losses on the 208 part
> designed used all over the world for decades no problem.


Using a system with half the voltage is just a waist of copper. I know its a non standard in the US and Canada, but its allowed by the NEC, and wise to implement it.
 
416/240 volts is common in other parts of the world - but is usually at 50 Hz, may or may not have anything to do with why they want this voltage. If the equipment is using primarily 240 volts though you can run line to neutral with all the equipment. 240 volt delta systems are another possible option if all the loads are 240 volts, but would require more copper to supply same load.
 
kwired said:
416/240 volts is common in other parts of the world - but is usually at 50 Hz, may or may not have anything to do with why they want this voltage. If the equipment is using primarily 240 volts though you can run line to neutral with all the equipment. 240 volt delta systems are another possible option if all the loads are 240 volts, but would require more copper to supply same load.
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Check out the link Ron posted in post 6, it is interesting. :)
 
mbrooke said:
Why? Just wondering :blink: While I can not speak for your project, the ones I have done do involve a gain.

> Single pole breakers over doubles= 2x more circuits per panel board, so fewer panels
> Phase and egc wire size is halved
> zero transformer losses, lower electric bill
> no money to spend buying, lifting and installing transformer
> 4 wires for 3 circuits to 6 receptacles over 12 wires 6 circuits for 6 receptacles.
> lower losses on the 208 part
> designed used all over the world for decades no problem.


Using a system with half the voltage is just a waist of copper. I know its a non standard in the US and Canada, but its allowed by the NEC, and wise to implement it.
Click to expand...

Why? Just can't sleep at night without the answer. What fun would being ignorant be when this forum is available?:roll:
 
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