450 KW Gen EPO switch 8 ft above ground

[tom baker]

There is an outside 450 KW generator mounted on an 860 gallon fuel tank. This puts the control panel and EPO 8 ft from grade. Whats needed is a platform all around the generator.
The generator main breaker is 7' 4" above grade to the center of the handle in the on postion. While the main breaker height violates 240.24(A), what is unclear is the EPO (emergency power off) and the control panel.
Section 445 per the following:

445.18 Disconnecting Means Required for Generators.
Generators shall be equipped with disconnect(s), lockable in the open position, by means of which the generator and all protective devices and control apparatus are able to be disconnected entirely from the circuits supplied by the generator except where both of the following conditions apply:
(1) The driving means for the generator can be readily shut down.
(2) The generator is not arranged to operate in parallel with another generator or other source of voltage.

(1) Refers to the EPO. What is "readily"? IMO, 8ft from grade is not readily.
There is also some language in NFPA 110 but its a bit unclear.

Am I missing anything?

 

[iwire]

For the EPO how about 404.8(A).

The scope of 404 says it applies to all switches and the EPO must be a switch.

That said .......... does the NEC apply to the factory wiring of this generator unit?

I guess the NEC applies to the height of the switch if it is expected to serve as the NEC required disconnecting means.

 

[hillbilly1]

Out of about 30 gensets last year in 6 states, I only had one jurisdiction require a platform to reach these switches. Bought an RV step and platform with handrail to satisfy their request. Seems not to be enforced too ridgidly.

 

[nakulak]

is there another disconnecting means located within sight which complies ? (ie disconnect on bldg being served ?)

 

[weressl]

There is an outside 450 KW generator mounted on an 860 gallon fuel tank. This puts the control panel and EPO 8 ft from grade. Whats needed is a platform all around the generator.
The generator main breaker is 7' 4" above grade to the center of the handle in the on postion. While the main breaker height violates 240.24(A), what is unclear is the EPO (emergency power off) and the control panel.
Section 445 per the following:

445.18 Disconnecting Means Required for Generators.
Generators shall be equipped with disconnect(s), lockable in the open position, by means of which the generator and all protective devices and control apparatus are able to be disconnected entirely from the circuits supplied by the generator except where both of the following conditions apply:
(1) The driving means for the generator can be readily shut down.
(2) The generator is not arranged to operate in parallel with another generator or other source of voltage.

(1) Refers to the EPO. What is "readily"? IMO, 8ft from grade is not readily.
There is also some language in NFPA 110 but its a bit unclear.

Am I missing anything?

The (1) does not refer to the EPO. EPO Emergency Power Off refers to the disconenction of the electrical power from the load by other than normal means. The interruption of the fuel supply to the driving engine would mean the ready shutdown of the driving mean of the generator.

 

[tom baker]

I am not sure we can reach the fuel shut off either, but it is lower.
Perhaps I'll put this on my list of changes for the 2014 NEC, make it readily accessible instead of readily.

 

[iwire]

I am not sure we can reach the fuel shut off either, but it is lower.
Perhaps I'll put this on my list of changes for the 2014 NEC, make it readily accessible instead of readily.

Tom did you even look at 404.8(A) like I suggested?

 

[weressl]

Tom did you even look at 404.8(A) like I suggested?

An EPO does not necessarily qualify as a 404 device. The Code leaves a gap for control devices.

 

[iwire]

An EPO does not necessarily qualify as a 404 device. The Code leaves a gap for control devices.

The scope of 404 says 'all switches and switching devices'

Please show me the gap you speak of.

 

[dbuckley]

In my opinion having the genset EPO out of reach is an excellent idea.

In almost all circumstances, EPOs are far more trouble than they are worth. The exception is safety of life issues like machine shops.

 

[weressl]

The scope of 404 says 'all switches and switching devices'

Please show me the gap you speak of.

So a control valve limit switch would fall under the same category? How about an electronic level switch?

 

[iwire]

So a control valve limit switch would fall under the same category? How about an electronic level switch?

I understand your point entirely and I really do not know the answer. 404.8(A) Exception 2 allows us to ignore the 6' 7" height restriction for switches that go with equipment.

My mind went to the large number of contactors and relays I have installed above 6' - 7" There was no reason to mount them high other then my convenience. The items you mention pretty much have to be with the equipment they serve or monitor.

I am open to ideas.

 

[weressl]

I understand your point entirely and I really do not know the answer. 404.8(A) Exception 2 allows us to ignore the 6' 7" height restriction for switches that go with equipment.

My mind went to the large number of contactors and relays I have installed above 6' - 7" There was no reason to mount them high other then my convenience. The items you mention pretty much have to be with the equipment they serve or monitor.

I am open to ideas.

Me too - open to ideas.