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Dale001289

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Georgia
I have a Fire Alarm pull station installed in CID2 area; its listed as Nema 4X, Explosionproof, rated CID1, B,C,D...BUT, the device does not state anything about "Factory Sealed", "Hermetically Sealed", "No Seal Required" etc.

So does this device still require a conduit (or cable) seal within 18"?
 
Dale001289 said:
I tend to agree. But if its Explosionproof construction doesn't that mean it has to have factory sealed contacts, therefore no seal required?
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hermetically sealed is not the same thing as XP, and unless the rules are different for fire pull boxes there is no code I am aware of that requires XP equipment use sealed contacts.

Keep in mind that the "seals" we talk about that are put in conduits to restrict the movement of gases within the conduits are not a hermetic seal. A hermetic seal is completely unable to pass gases through it. it is a very difficult thing to do for something of any size, and nearly impossible to do in the field.
 
petersonra said:
hermetically sealed is not the same thing as XP, and unless the rules are different for fire pull boxes there is no code I am aware of that requires XP equipment use sealed contacts.

Keep in mind that the "seals" we talk about that are put in conduits to restrict the movement of gases within the conduits are not a hermetic seal. A hermetic seal is completely unable to pass gases through it. it is a very difficult thing to do for something of any size, and nearly impossible to do in the field.
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The enclosure is not XP or Nema 7; its nema 4X only.
 
Dale001289 said:
The enclosure is not XP or Nema 7; its nema 4X only.
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Then the information that says it is suitable for Class I, Division 1 is wrong. All enclosures in Class I, Division 1 must be "approved" for Class I, Division 1. It does not matter what type of contacts the pull station uses. That only makes a difference in Class I, Division 2 locations.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Then the information that says it is suitable for Class I, Division 1 is wrong. All enclosures in Class I, Division 1 must be "approved" for Class I, Division 1. It does not matter what type of contacts the pull station uses. That only makes a difference in Class I, Division 2 locations.
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I went out and personally looked at the device as installed in a CID2 area of the plant. Part of the device, the portion that houses the DPDT switch, appears to be Nema 7 construction. The front portion of the device (the part for "Pull Down") appears to be Nema 4X.

The vendor documentation is, at best very vague. Nowhere does it state anything about Nema 7. I am going to treat this as a 'conduit seal required' scenario.

Thanks to all!
 
Dale001289 said:
Similar, but mine states "Nema 4X rated, and UL listed for CID1, Gps B,C,D." The housing has a threaded entry, top and bottom. Looks like Nema 7 but nothing actually states that.
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OK, based on your description, you have one of these from Edwards, now available through Kidde.

MPSR XP Pull.jpg

The explosion proof model is also listed to NEMA 4X. Nothing talks about NEMA 7, although the station I posted earlier does come with a NEMA 7 listing.
 
500.8(C) Marking. Equipment shall be marked to show the environment
for which it has been evaluated. Unless otherwise
specified or allowed in (C)(6), the marking shall include
the information specified in (C)(1) through (C)(5).
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Note it only calls for "marking" for the environment for which it has been evaluated; "Nema 4X rated, and UL listed for CID1, Gps B,C,D.", is sufficient. It is not specifically required to mark it explosionproof. I'll leave confirming that explosionproof isn't mentioned in 500.8(C)(1) through (C)(5) as an "exercise for the student."

The Kidde device as shown requires an external seal. There is neither an NEC nor UL requirement for "factory sealing."

"NEMA" designations are no longer the actual standard term; "Type", as indicated in Section and Table 110.28, is the proper term.
 
rbalex said:
Note it only calls for "marking" for the environment for which it has been evaluated; "Nema 4X rated, and UL listed for CID1, Gps B,C,D.", is sufficient. It is not specifically required to mark it explosionproof. I'll leave confirming that explosionproof isn't mentioned in 500.8(C)(1) through (C)(5) as an "exercise for the student."

The Kidde device as shown requires an external seal. There is neither an NEC nor UL requirement for "factory sealing."

"NEMA" designations are no longer the actual standard term; "Type", as indicated in Section and Table 110.28, is the proper term.
Click to expand...

Yes, that will happen when the last of the oldtimers, such as myself, are laid to rest. Just like science, it advances one obituary at a time.
 
rbalex said:
Note it only calls for "marking" for the environment for which it has been evaluated; "Nema 4X rated, and UL listed for CID1, Gps B,C,D.", is sufficient. It is not specifically required to mark it explosionproof. I'll leave confirming that explosionproof isn't mentioned in 500.8(C)(1) through (C)(5) as an "exercise for the student."

The Kidde device as shown requires an external seal. There is neither an NEC nor UL requirement for "factory sealing."

"NEMA" designations are no longer the actual standard term; "Type", as indicated in Section and Table 110.28, is the proper term.
Click to expand...

I was hoping for hermetically sealed/factory sealed contacts so an external conduit seal wouldn't be required but per my conversation with vendor last night (RSG/Aames Security, Inc. in CA)this is not the case.

Thanks again for all the excellent feedback!
 
Dale001289 said:
I was hoping for hermetically sealed/factory sealed contacts so an external conduit seal wouldn't be required but per my conversation with vendor last night (RSG/Aames Security, Inc. in CA)this is not the case.

Thanks again for all the excellent feedback!
Click to expand...

hermetically sealed contacts would not eliminate the need for an external seal in a C1D1 area.
 
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