517

[lmchenry]

Here is the situation: A regional health department. Exam rooms labeled on the print. No invasive procedures, just open up and say awe stuff. The engineer says no redundant ground. I still think that it is required. What is the general opinion?

 

[wbalsam1]

Here is the situation: A regional health department. Exam rooms labeled on the print. No invasive procedures, just open up and say awe stuff. The engineer says no redundant ground. I still think that it is required. What is the general opinion?

Don't be fooled. Get the AHJ to rule on this. I once had a medical doctor out-and-out lie to me about invasive procedures rather than to rewire a suite of rooms in a conversion project. Later when I learned the truth, the AHJ in the Town tried to protect the Dr., but I prevailed by going to the Town Board.
Watch yourself on this one.

 

[M. D.]

I don't care who signs what ,.. You are the one who will be responsible for any harm as a result of your work,..

You are correct ,..it is a patient care area show him the definitions ,.. stick to your guns

Patient Care Area. Any portion of a health care facility wherein patients are intended to be examined or treated. Areas of a health care facility in which patient care is administered are classified as general care areas or critical care areas. The governing body of the facility designates these areas in accordance with the type of patient care anticipated and with the following definitions of the area classification.

FPN: Business offices, corridors, lounges, day rooms, dining rooms, or similar areas typically are not classified as patient care areas.

General Care Areas. Patient bedrooms, examining rooms, treatment rooms, clinics, and similar areas in which it is intended that the patient will come in contact with ordinary appliances such as a nurse call system, electric beds, examining lamps, telephones, and entertainment devices. [99, 2005]

Critical Care Areas. Those special care units, intensive care units, coronary care units, angiography laboratories, cardiac catheterization laboratories, delivery rooms, operating rooms, and similar areas in which patients are intended to be subjected to invasive procedures and connected to line-operated, electromedical devices.

Wet Procedure Locations. Those spaces within patient care areas where a procedure is performed and that are normally subject to wet conditions while patients are present. These include standing fluids on the floor or drenching of the work area, either of which condition is intimate to the patient or staff. Routine housekeeping procedures and incidental spillage of liquids do not define a wet location.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I always say that an exam room is an exam room. All they need is one of those lights to look in your ears or nose and it has to meet the requirements of 517.

 

[dcspector]

M.D. and John I agree....... M.D..........Does that mean medical doctor? No pun intended....:smile:

 

[lmchenry]

They say that it is not a general care area because the patient will not come in contact with any appliance listed in 517 under general care area.

 

[M. D.]

They have prints that they have identified a room as an exam room yet they are not going to to an examination ??? then I would have them change the designation on the prints to waiting area

 

[Karl H]

There is no way around 517 in the OP.

 

[steve66]

They say that it is not a general care area because the patient will not come in contact with any appliance listed in 517 under general care area.

Will they have exam tables? Most of those I've seen plug in and have receptacles on the side.

I agree with the others, an exam room is required to have the redundant ground. Hopefully your inspector will agree also.

 

[steve66]

If they don't intend the patient to come into contact with any electrical appliances, then I guess they don't need any receptacles in the exam rooms.

 

[Karl H]

If they don't intend the patient to come into contact with any electrical appliances, then I guess they don't need any receptacles in the exam rooms.

That's a good point.Then do'nt install recepticals in the "Exam Rooms."

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I think this is simple.
Prints label the rooms, "exam rooms". Follow 517.13.

If they do not need to do this, then have the building department restamp the prints to reidentify the nature of the rooms.

That should be interesting.

 

[roger]

They should have designated them "Consultation"

Roger

 

[brother]

I agree with others, if the prints say 'exam' rooms then its exam rooms. To do otherwise is a violation of NEC.

 

[acrwc10]

Here is the situation: A regional health department. Exam rooms labeled on the print. No invasive procedures, just open up and say awe stuff. The engineer says no redundant ground. I still think that it is required. What is the general opinion?

Is this an Electrical Engineer or the kind of engineer that drives a train ? It is such an obvious answer,that 517 needs to be followed, you have to ask him Why is he arguing it, it cost him nothing to follow the code but it will sure come back later if you don't.

 

[lmchenry]

I must correct myself. I was told that they were exam rooms on the plan. I looked it up and actually they are called clinic rooms. I don't think that changes anything though. They even have a X-ray room. It is obvious that they are examining patients. So, they need the redundant ground.