6-gang service with main ocpd ???

[Toros]

Hi
South. Calif. Edison says that
if we replace the existing multi-meter service with new 400A, 6-meter/gang one in 5-unit apartm. building and
the total feeder/ main breakers exceeds 400A , we need to have main 400A disconnect to protect all, the whole service.

I think they want to protect their transformer and overhead drops that have had designed for max. 400A
making sure if the new non-main 400A service exceeds 400A .......

What do you think??

 

[electrofelon]

As you probably know, the nec allows us to go by the load calc when multiple mains are involved and the sum of those mains can exceed the ampacity of the common SEC. A few times I have had the utility not like that and they said something kinda vague like "...well typically if there are 2-6 mains, they should add up to the service size..." I ignored them and they never said anything :angel:

If this is a "hard" policy, I think you have to comply.

 

[kwired]

Hi
South. Calif. Edison says that
if we replace the existing multi-meter service with new 400A, 6-meter/gang one in 5-unit apartm. building and
the total feeder/ main breakers exceeds 400A , we need to have main 400A disconnect to protect all, the whole service.

I think they want to protect their transformer and overhead drops that have had designed for max. 400A
making sure if the new non-main 400A service exceeds 400A .......

What do you think??

I'd bet that their transformer isn't rated for 400 amps unless you actually have nearly 400 amps of continuous load. If single phase and no electric heat - maybe as little as a 25kVA transformer supplying this.

They don't have to agree with what NEC allows and can still refuse to serve customer if they don't get what they want unfortunately.

 

[jaggedben]

Hi
South. Calif. Edison says that
if we replace the existing multi-meter service with new 400A, 6-meter/gang one in 5-unit apartm. building and
the total feeder/ main breakers exceeds 400A , we need to have main 400A disconnect to protect all, the whole service.

I think they want to protect their transformer and overhead drops that have had designed for max. 400A
making sure if the new non-main 400A service exceeds 400A .......

What do you think??

So it would seem to me perhaps that they are telling you that if you don't want to pay to upgrade the service then you have to keep the service at 400A. Which would be reasonable. But note what electrofelon said, you can still claim it's 400A if you can back that up with a load calc. Seems to me that their requirement should kick in more rigidly if there were more than six meters.

 

[kwired]

So it would seem to me perhaps that they are telling you that if you don't want to pay to upgrade the service then you have to keep the service at 400A. Which would be reasonable. But note what electrofelon said, you can still claim it's 400A if you can back that up with a load calc. Seems to me that their requirement should kick in more rigidly if there were more than six meters.

They can do what they want. Had a situation once where there were 4 apartments, each with 100 amp service disconnect (in a 5 unit meter pack), 4/0 aluminum supply conductors (120/240 single phase). This had been there 30+ years and showed no sign of overloading, though a NEC load calc did maybe say we needed maybe 250 amps. Owner was wanting to just put 200 amp meter socket on the existing supply line as they were paying all tenant bills anyway - would save on monthly minimum on 5 meters x 2 identical buildings, or better yet a 320 or 400 amp meter socket in line with both at the pole. POCO decided to require enough BS to discourage owner from proceeding, probably to assure they keep getting 10 minimum monthly charges regardless of usage.

 

[jaggedben]

They can do what they want. ...

Well, worst case you can report them to a regulatory body (PUC). But that's not worth doing most of the time.

 

[Toros]

As you probably know, the nec allows us to go by the load calc when multiple mains are involved and the sum of those mains can exceed the ampacity of the common SEC. A few times I have had the utility not like that and they said something kinda vague like "...well typically if there are 2-6 mains, they should add up to the service size..." I ignored them and they never said anything :angel:

If this is a "hard" policy, I think you have to comply.

SO,
for new 20-unit Apartment where each dwelling gets 100A main requires 20,000A service:happysad::rant:

 

[jumper]

SO,
for new 20-unit Apartment where each dwelling gets 100A main requires 20,000A service:happysad::rant:

2000A. :angel:

 

[jaggedben]

SO,
for new 20-unit Apartment where each dwelling gets 100A main requires 20,000A service:happysad::rant:

1) No, he was saying the opposite, it can go by load calc, except that...
2) Without a disconnect ahead of the 20 disconnects for the units, that would be violation of the rule limiting service disconnects to six.

Seems to me the typical service for 20 unit apt buildings is 600A.

 

[electrofelon]

The situation I had was we wanted an overhead service due to a number of reasons making it a can of worms to go padmount. The utility had a maximum service size they would provide overhead - which is kinda silly, I mean sure they have a max size pole pig bank they want to hang, fair enough, but we all know they don't really care about the NEC service size so what does that have to do with anything? Anyway... the max service size was a bit marginal for the building, so I got around it by using the 2-6 rule as a "loophole" to provide a bigger service should the owner need the capacity.

 

[Toros]

1) No, he was saying the opposite, it can go by load calc, except that...
2) Without a disconnect ahead of the 20 disconnects for the units, that would be violation of the rule limiting service disconnects to six.

Seems to me the typical service for 20 unit apt buildings is 600A.

You right
sorry
in 20-unit apartm , more than 6 disconnect,
a main disco. ahead , 600-2000A, would limit the demand,........

no need for 20, 000A service

 

[kwired]

Well, worst case you can report them to a regulatory body (PUC). But that's not worth doing most of the time.

The incident I mentioned was the largest electric utility in the state, as an individual I probably get ignored if I tried to complain about much of anything, especially against this utility. All that said they are still pretty reasonable compared to some stories I hear about other parts of the country.