600V Nominal

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ron

Senior Member
Has anyone been involved with a facility that operates at 600V nominal (vs 480V) in the USA? Other than ratings of equipment, and longer leadtime time for equipment, have you experienced any other problems or special circumstances in which we should look out for?
If your interested, this is to squeeze out some additional capacity from switchgear and conductors that would be normally rated at 600V anyway.
 

friebel

Senior Member
Location
Pennsville, N.J.
Re: 600V Nominal

To: ron, I worked for the DuPont Co. for 45 years, and the plant where I worked, had 575 volt motors and equipment.
Why would you want to go to 575 volt equipment, where the standard in the USA is generally 480 volts?
But to answer your question, there is not a problem, except as you mentioned, lead time.
 

dereckbc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Plano, TX
Re: 600V Nominal

Ron not sure what you are trying to do, but if you are going to step down for distribution, not a bad idea to squeeze some extra KVA out of existing entrance switch gear.
 

ron

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

The intent is to squeeze out some capacity from new gear and conductors (new facility), nothing malicious.
This is a pretty big system, so using less quantity of equipment will be a big cost savings.

My biggest concern is operating at 600V nominal, means that the plant will run at high voltage condition (5% or so) until sufficient load is placed into the building, to drag the system voltage down to the nominal 600V. For that time the equipment will be used outside of the rated 600V capacity.

[ January 21, 2005, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: ron ]
 

Ed MacLaren

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

My biggest concern is operating at 600V nominal, means that the plant will run at high voltage condition (5% or so) until sufficient load is placed into the building, to drag the system voltage down to the nominal 600V.
I may be missing something, but I'll ask anyway.
Are the transformer primary taps already set for lowest secondary voltage?

Ed
 

kiloamp7

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

Not sure what you are getting at either, ron.
What is this high voltage condition you speak of?

You say new facility, new gear, new conductors.
Well, you can use xfmrs with a nominal 600V. sec.
& 600V-208Y/120V. xfmrs, & 600V. (575V.) motors etc.
You can even use 347V. lighting like (I believe) they use in Canada.
 

bob

Senior Member
Location
Alabama
Re: 600V Nominal

Ron
Ed beat me to the question. If its a large facility, I would assume that you have a large pad mount transformer or maybe a dedicated sub. I would think you could adjust the taps so that the voltage level could be adjusted to what ever you can stand.
 

ron

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

Sorry, I didn't give the whole picture. Slightly oversimplified, this facility will have two 13.2kV 500A services in a '2N' configuration (completely redundant), and (10) 2MW 13.2kV diesels in a '2N' configuration as standby power. The expected load is approximately 8MW (10MW with some cushion).
We are trying to utilize the switchgear and conductors to their maximum capacity.

Since the substation transformers are multitap, but not automatic multitap, they are set initially to provide appropriate voltage when the load reaches steady state (approximately 3 months from when the door opens). The client doesn't want to mess with the transformer taps when the building is "live". The transformer taps will be selected so that the voltage would provide 600V at the secondary of the multiple substation transformers at steady state. Since the substation transformers will have approximate;y 6% impedance, the secondary voltage for the first 3 months (before steady state) will be approximately 3 to 5% high, so to account for the voltage loss/drop across the transformer when they are eventually loaded at steady state. So, before loading @ steady state, the transformer secondary voltage may be in excess of 600V, like 620V or so.
Hence my concern. Normally, in other designs/facilities, when we run high with a 480V secondary, the equipment is still well below its rating of 600V and not a problem. Since now we will be running @ nominal 600V, the actual rating of the equipment and conductors, when the voltage is high, we will be exceeding the voltage rating of the equipment and conductors.
For example, take any industrial facility that is in full operation and measure the voltage at the service entrance transformer. Then turn off all the loads in the facility and measure the service entrance voltage. You will see the voltage is higher when the transformer does not have to contend with the full extent of its own impedance.
 

bob

Senior Member
Location
Alabama
Re: 600V Nominal

It seems to me that you only solution is to have regulators at the sub. You can change the settings
without interruption. Even with regulators it takes some time to reduce voltage levels when the load drops off.
 

kiloamp7

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

Not sure, but aren't "low voltage drawout air circuit breakers/iron frame breakers" tested & rated on a 635V. basis?

But if you have entire facility on a nominal 600V. system, there would be lots of other equipment involved: molded case bkrs.,fused switches, MCC's, busway, etc.
I do not know.

Maybe talk with Canada or textile industry in Southeast US where, (I think) they use 600V. systems.
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

I don't have any experience with this sort of engineering so I don't want anybody to get the idea that I think I know what I'm talking about.

This thread is very interesting to me. And looking at from my perspective I can see why you're looking for some extra insight.

I (being completely unqualified) don't see that you can pull this off. I think the best way to deal with it is to shut down and change the taps.
 

izak

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MO
Re: 600V Nominal

heres an idea...
have them bring in those huge Load trucks...
the ones they use to test the BIG generators with every so often...

then you could connect those to your system, simulate the load of what it will be like when you are done, and just burn massive amounts of energy, day and night, for three months
:)
 

lady sparks lover

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

Originally posted by ron:
Has anyone been involved with a facility that operates at 600V nominal (vs 480V) in the USA? Other than ratings of equipment, and longer leadtime time for equipment, have you experienced any other problems or special circumstances in which we should look out for?
If your interested, this is to squeeze out some additional capacity from switchgear and conductors that would be normally rated at 600V anyway.
I did one application with it. The lighting was rated 347V, and it was definitely another animal, but it was just like dealing with 480V, however trying to find a K rated Xfmr...yikes. I'm not an expert at it, so you'll have to ask someone else, but there's my two cents.


Lady :)
 

Ed MacLaren

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

Why would you want to go to 575 volt equipment, where the standard in the USA is generally 480 volts?
The main advantage of the 600/347 volt system, which is standard in most parts of Canada, is energy savings.

Less current is required to deliver the same power, which can often result in a smaller wire size required for motor circuits.

For example, let's compare a 20 HP, 3 phase motor installation.
The 460 volt FLA is 27 amps.
The 575 volt FLA is 22 amps.

More light fixtures per circuit means less lighting circuits required for a given area.

In all cases, the voltage drop and line loss is reduced.

Ed
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: 600V Nominal

Ed,

Do you have a color code to identify 600Y/347 volt systems in Canada?

I like the idea of a 600 volt system for the reasons you mentioned, although I can imagine some major fireworks when something goes wrong. :eek:
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

I think the survivability rate drops when people come into contact with ungrounded conductors too.

Ed, Being in Canada, would probably have some facts on that.

[ January 24, 2005, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 

Ed MacLaren

Senior Member
Re: 600V Nominal

Do you have a color code to identify 600Y/347 volt systems in Canada?
There is no color-code requirement specific to 347/600 circuits.

The only relevant rule specifies Red, Black, and Blue for three phase circuits "where color-coded circuits are required".

Regarding the "survivability rate" of electricians working on 600 volt systems, I don't have numbers, but I never hear of many accidents. Perhaps the higher the voltage, the more careful people are. :)

Ed
 
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