60amp Sub panel ran from main house to detached garage....question.

[JohnDS]

I haven't done this in a while but I do know that since it is a detached garage, that the sub panel needs its own ground rod. I have 3 questions:

1) this sub panel needs its own main breaker, out by the garage, correct?
2) can the main breaker be located in the sub panel or does it need to be outside the garage?
1) the grounds and neutrals still need to be separated, correct?

Thanks guys....total brain fart here and want to do it correct. Thank you.

 

[augie47]

I haven't done this in a while but I do know that since it is a detached garage, that the sub panel needs its own ground rod. I have two questions:

1) this sub panel needs its own main breaker, correct? Unless you can apply the "6 disconnect rule"
2) can the main breaker be located in the sub panel or does it need to be outside the garage? 225.32 states outside or inside nearest the point of entry of the conductors
1) the grounds and neutrals still need to be separated, correct? Yes

Thanks guys....total brain fart here and want to do it correct. Thank you.

,,,,,

 

[JohnDS]

,,,,,

What do you mean 6 disconnect rule?

In 225.32, by putting main disconnect nearest point of entry....if conductors entered garage below sub panel and then went a few feet up to enter through bottom of subpanel, would a main breaker located in sub panel be permissible to accommodate the rule?

Lastly, can I just use a regular main lug sub panel and not use the main lugs, rather just put the main sub panel breaker where the branch circuits would go? Is this ok, or do I need to get an actual main breaker panel?

 

[qcroanoke]

What do you mean 6 disconnect rule?

In 225.32, by putting main disconnect nearest point of entry....if conductors entered garage below sub panel and then went a few feet up to enter through bottom of subpanel, would a main breaker located in sub panel be permissible to accommodate the rule?

Lastly, can I just use a regular main lug sub panel and not use the main lugs, rather just put the main sub panel breaker where the branch circuits would go? Is this ok, or do I need to get an actual main breaker panel?

1.If you can turn off the entire garage with 6 throws of the hand, (turn 6 breakers off) you do not need a main breaker.

2. Depends on the AHJ.

3. Yes. as long as you secure it as required by 408.36 d

 

[JohnDS]

1.If you can turn off the entire garage with 6 throws of the hand, (turn 6 breakers off) you do not need a main breaker.

2. Depends on the AHJ.

3. Yes. as long as you secure it as required by 408.36 d

As to your response to #3, isnt 408.36 d for 100a or larger main breakers? This is a 60amp, so can I just stick it in like any other breaker without bolting in?

 

[david luchini]

As to your response to #3, isnt 408.36 d for 100a or larger main breakers? This is a 60amp, so can I just stick it in like any other breaker without bolting in?

I don't see any ampere limitations in 408.36(D).

 

[JohnDS]

I don't see any ampere limitations in 408.36(D).

Ok no problem. I actually dont have a code book right in front of me, I looked up 408.36 d on the internet, and saw something about that. Anyway, thanks a lot guys for the help as always.

And another thing, does anyone else agree that the AHJ should not supersede the NEC? I mean, if you install strictly to code and then the AHJ comes along after install and doesn't like it, that could mean big money lost on a job. The code should be the code right?

 

[qcroanoke]

Ok no problem. I actually dont have a code book right in front of me, I looked up 408.36 d on the internet, and saw something about that. Anyway, thanks a lot guys for the help as always.

And another thing, does anyone else agree that the AHJ should not supersede the NEC? I mean, if you install strictly to code and then the AHJ comes along after install and doesn't like it, that could mean big money lost on a job. The code should be the code right?

Most AHJ's enforce only the NEC but some have their own requirements. That being said, if it is their requirement they must be able to show you where it is at in their rules. Not just because that's "not allowed in my town."
Also there is no distance stated in the NEC as to how far into a building you can go before you have to hit a OCPD.
That is an AHJ call. Here in my area it is 6 ft.

 

[Smart $]

...
Lastly, can I just use a regular main lug sub panel and not use the main lugs, rather just put the main sub panel breaker where the branch circuits would go? Is this ok, or do I need to get an actual main breaker panel?

You can do it either way, or use the six-disconnect rule... but whichever you choose, the means has to be suitable for use as service equipment [225.36], and if using a plug-in backfed main breaker, an additional fastener is required to prevent inadvertent removal while energized [408.36(D)]. Also, if you use a main-lug-only panel under the six disconnect rule, you can use two-pole breakers for two 120V circuits or handle ties on single pole breakers to reduce the number of disconnects [225.33(B)].

 

[JohnDS]

Most AHJ's enforce only the NEC but some have their own requirements. That being said, if it is their requirement they must be able to show you where it is at in their rules. Not just because that's "not allowed in my town."
Also there is no distance stated in the NEC as to how far into a building you can go before you have to hit a OCPD.
That is an AHJ call. Here in my area it is 6 ft.

Yes, Im located in Long Island and here it is 5 ft.

You can do it either way, or use the six-disconnect rule... but whichever you choose, the means has to be suitable for use as service equipment [225.36], and if using a plug-in backfed main breaker, an additional fastener is required to prevent inadvertent removal while energized [408.36(D)]. Also, if you use a main-lug-only panel under the six disconnect rule, you can use two-pole breakers for two 120V circuits or handle ties on single pole breakers to reduce the number of disconnects [225.33(B)].

Thank you for the help as well.

 

[qcroanoke]

Yes, Im located in Long Island and here it is 5 ft.



Thank you for the help as well.

I was in Massapequa on Long Island and also Bethpage a couple years ago on a job we had there. Took LIRR into New York City for a day. What a town! Really enjoyed it and one day hope to go back.

 

[GlennG]

I recently did a similar job, detatched garage but i ran a 30 amp feeder to a 4 ckt sub panel. AHJ (also on long island, nassau county) informed me that i need to have a main breaker in the panel, even though i only had 2 circuits. My interpitation is that 2 throws of the hand shuts down the entire garage. Makes no sence to me but its no big thing so ill choose my battles. So at the end of the day it cant hurt to run it past the AHJ to play it safe.

 

[TobyD]

If you use a stab in breaker(to feed power) you will need to have a lock in device.Some 4-6 circuit circuit boxes I've used aren't designed for that type install.I use mostly Siemens and there is a lock in device I use to prevent the OCP to be removed without removing the screw and little plastic locking tab.