620.51 opinion pole
- Thread starter roger
- Start date
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russellroberts
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
It does say "a single means for each unit" sounds like " one" is whats allowed.
It does say "a single means for each unit" sounds like " one" is whats allowed.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
Hello Roger
I am not clear as to your question, but if you mean is only one disconnect permitted in the room for all elevators, my answer is no. If you are trying to say only one elevator per room, my answer is also no.
620.51 ... 'for each unit' in the first sentence is what I am reading to make this determination.
Pierre
Hello Roger
I am not clear as to your question, but if you mean is only one disconnect permitted in the room for all elevators, my answer is no. If you are trying to say only one elevator per room, my answer is also no.
620.51 ... 'for each unit' in the first sentence is what I am reading to make this determination.
Pierre
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
Roger
I reread your question again, I think I understand it now.
Yes I do believe this limits the number of disconnects per elevator to one.
Pierre
Roger
I reread your question again, I think I understand it now.
Yes I do believe this limits the number of disconnects per elevator to one.
Pierre
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
2002 NEC
If the elevator machine room is large you may need more than one disconnect, the one located near the door might not be within sight of the equipment it controls, both of which would have to disconnect all motors of one unit.
Or am I way off the mark here?
2002 NEC
While I believe a gung ho inspector can read it that way, isn't the intent to have a single means for disconnecting all the motors of one unit.
If the elevator machine room is large you may need more than one disconnect, the one located near the door might not be within sight of the equipment it controls, both of which would have to disconnect all motors of one unit.
Or am I way off the mark here?
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
Hello Russell and Pierre, Let me reword my question for clarity.
Say we have an elevator machine room for five elevators, and these elevators are numbered 1 thru 5. Let's take elevator #4, does the wording of 620.51 limit the number of disconnects in the machine room serving elevator #4 to one?
We could also use a machine room with one elevator. Is there a limit per 620.51 to the amount of disconnects allowed in the room for the feeder to this elevator?
Roger
Hello Russell and Pierre, Let me reword my question for clarity.
Say we have an elevator machine room for five elevators, and these elevators are numbered 1 thru 5. Let's take elevator #4, does the wording of 620.51 limit the number of disconnects in the machine room serving elevator #4 to one?
We could also use a machine room with one elevator. Is there a limit per 620.51 to the amount of disconnects allowed in the room for the feeder to this elevator?
Roger
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
Happy Fathers Day Roger (and the other Fathers here)
Bob
Happy Fathers Day Roger (and the other Fathers here)
Happens to me all the time.
Bob
russellroberts
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
620.51(B) says" No provision shall be made to to open or close this disconnecting means from any other part of the building". This seems to say that only one disco per elevator is permitted,in sight from or not.
Russell
[ June 15, 2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: russellroberts ]
620.51(B) says" No provision shall be made to to open or close this disconnecting means from any other part of the building". This seems to say that only one disco per elevator is permitted,in sight from or not.
Russell
[ June 15, 2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: russellroberts ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
I read 620.51(B) to mean that you can not have a remote button or control to operate a shunt type breaker or remote operated disconnect switch installed in the elevator machine room. (other than the exception for sprinklers)
If we can not have another disconnect anywhere in the building we will have to tap the line side of the service main.
No feeder breaker etc.
I read 620.51(B) to mean that you can not have a remote button or control to operate a shunt type breaker or remote operated disconnect switch installed in the elevator machine room. (other than the exception for sprinklers)
If we can not have another disconnect anywhere in the building we will have to tap the line side of the service main.
No feeder breaker etc.
russellroberts
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
That sounds a bit more logical Bob.
Russell
That sounds a bit more logical Bob.
Russell
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
The situation is that a state level elevator inspector and his state level superior are trying to interpret the NEC.
Local electrical inspector has approved the installation. I'll explain the installation and my stance tomorrow.
The owner is scared to let me force the issue.
Roger
[ June 15, 2003, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
The situation is that a state level elevator inspector and his state level superior are trying to interpret the NEC.
Local electrical inspector has approved the installation. I'll explain the installation and my stance tomorrow.
The owner is scared to let me force the issue.
Roger
[ June 15, 2003, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
Hi Guys,
I think the elevator control room may be the main point of contention here.
From an Elevator Inspectors concern, if the room is sprinkled, there is a whole new set of code issues concerning NFPA 72 which need to be considered.
Is the room sprinkled??
Thanks,
Hi Guys,
I think the elevator control room may be the main point of contention here.
From an Elevator Inspectors concern, if the room is sprinkled, there is a whole new set of code issues concerning NFPA 72 which need to be considered.
Is the room sprinkled??
Thanks,
Re: 620.51 opinion pole
Websparky, no, the room, shaft, pit, or anything remotely associated with these particular elevators are not sprinkled. This machine room is on the roof of a ten story hospital.
Here's the real installation.
Old elevator machine room serves five elevators with old telephone switching technology for controls.
Four of the elevators are fed from a gutter which is fed from a switch board in the basement. Gutter has no disconnect, only individual disconnects tapped from feeder inside gutter for each of four elevators.
The fifth is fed from it's own feeder from basement
Owner for what ever reason decides to modernize elevators from asthetics to controls.
Old disconnects from 60's or 70's would not be within sight of the new equipment.
To keep the inconvenience to a minimum, (one elevator down at a time) we left the old disconnects in place and came off load side to new disconnects.
Local electrical inspector has no problem with this and signs off.
Enter elevator inspector, has never seen more than one disconnect in a machine room before.
Now opens NEC and sees that 620.51 says "A single means: bla bla bla: and be designed so that no pole can be operated independantly." He interprets this to mean "ONE" disconnecting means in the machine room.
Roger
Websparky, no, the room, shaft, pit, or anything remotely associated with these particular elevators are not sprinkled. This machine room is on the roof of a ten story hospital.
Here's the real installation.
Old elevator machine room serves five elevators with old telephone switching technology for controls.
Four of the elevators are fed from a gutter which is fed from a switch board in the basement. Gutter has no disconnect, only individual disconnects tapped from feeder inside gutter for each of four elevators.
The fifth is fed from it's own feeder from basement
Owner for what ever reason decides to modernize elevators from asthetics to controls.
Old disconnects from 60's or 70's would not be within sight of the new equipment.
To keep the inconvenience to a minimum, (one elevator down at a time) we left the old disconnects in place and came off load side to new disconnects.
Local electrical inspector has no problem with this and signs off.
Enter elevator inspector, has never seen more than one disconnect in a machine room before.
Now opens NEC and sees that 620.51 says "A single means: bla bla bla: and be designed so that no pole can be operated independantly." He interprets this to mean "ONE" disconnecting means in the machine room.
Roger
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