680.22(B) in reverse

[chris kennedy]

I got a question yesterday that is cut and dry IMO. Asked if pool heaters need GFCI protection. I see the answer is no, but this got the rusty wheels turning. Why GFCI protect the pump yet not the heater?

Thanks

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I got a question yesterday that is cut and dry IMO. Asked if pool heaters need GFCI protection. I see the answer is no, but this got the rusty wheels turning. Why GFCI protect the pump yet not the heater?

Thanks

Good question and I wondered why for a long time. Remember before this cycle the nec did not require GFCI for a pool pump if it were direct wired. We may be getting to it soon.

 

[jumper]

Good question and I wondered why for a long time. Remember before this cycle the nec did not require GFCI for a pool pump if it were direct wired. We may be getting to it soon.

Not any where I can find in 2011 draft. Am I missing something?

From the 2011 draft:

680.9 Electric Pool Water Heaters. All electric pool water
heaters shall have the heating elements subdivided into
loads not exceeding 48 amperes and protected at not over
60 amperes. The ampacity of the branch-circuit conductors
and the rating or setting of overcurrent protective devices
shall not be less than 125 percent of the total name plate rated
load.

 

[iwire]

Why GFCI protect the pump yet not the heater?

Why GFCI the pump?

Really, I don't get it.

 

[jumper]

Why GFCI the pump?

Really, I don't get it.

Bob, I do not get your point. Don't we have to?:-?

(B) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors
from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground-fault
protection rated 15 or 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt,
single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection,
shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel.

 

[iwire]

Yes, now we do.

It used to be just cord and plug connected pumps now it is all pumps, that was passed with little to no substantiation or history of problems.

 

[jumper]

Yes, now we do.

It used to be just cord and plug connected pumps now it is all pumps, that was passed with little to no substantiation or history of problems.

Okay, now I see your point.

 

[tkb]

Yes, now we do.

It used to be just cord and plug connected pumps now it is all pumps, that was passed with little to no substantiation or history of problems.

How does this happen?
Is there anyone on this forum that is on a code panel that can enlighten us on the process?

 

[sparky59]

Yes....i can enlighten you on the process. Manufacturers make more money on a GFCI breaker than they do a regular breaker. They also make more money on arc fault breakers. This shouldn't be allowed....but money talks.

 

[hurk27]

How does this happen?
Is there anyone on this forum that is on a code panel that can enlighten us on the process?

how do we get some of the dumb laws we have in the United States, look at the roaster of CMP's of any code making panel, their all listed in the front of every code book, and you will see how. manufactures have more input then we know, and while they have a pretty good checks and balances to over see it, not everything is caught, AFCI's are a prime example of that. they should have never been required before they could do what was advertised.

I understand that manufactures have an interest to protect, but like Charlie Eldridge use to say show me the body count, is what should be the reason for making a change, it should be backed by scientific data or any court can walk right through a code.