680.4 callin' all AHJ's

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romex jockey

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
So , i was actually awake enough in the '20 update to realize a new code was born

And i was in fact excited about it as well

When i think on all the lack of maintenance, helpy helpertons, improper maintenance, or even seeing my decades old installs decay i have to admit someone down in the bowels of the NFPA is well thought

That said, i'm curious as to how to approach it? How does the bureaucracy work ? If one has already pulled permit & closed it out?

What say you folks that wear the big shoes?

~RJ~
 
There have been a number of electrocution deaths in pools due to the things you describe. As I recall, Miami-Dade county (Florida) already has this requirement for pools that other than residential and I'm think there are others. I'm sure it works like lots of things that need annual inspection and they keep list of pools or require an annual operating license. Like they do elevators.
 
For many years NJ has had mandatory grounding and bonding inspections every 5 years for non-residential pools.
 
I'm all for some sort of annual inspection here fellas.

I hail from Vermont, where the weather alone can really be hard on a pool, hot tub ,any outside vessel

But we have fewer of them than south of us, so you folks naturally evolved to meet the safety needs quicker

How can we follow is my Q?

~RJ~
 
Let's take private property off the table then.

I recently found public pools 7 spas subject to annual dept of health inspections

I'm looking for ammo to approach the 'powers that be' for electrical safety

~RJ~
 
I'm with you. But requiring periodic inspections of private residential property isn't going to happen. Sometimes you can't even get the owner to allow an inspection in order to get a C of O or a new service connected.

My philosophy is that if they want to electrocute themselves go right ahead.

-Hal
 
Hal....
we've annual fire extinguisher, annual EM , annual elevator, as well as a lot of annual (other dept's than electrical) inspections done for what are public access

Our state inspectors don't necessarily need be saddled with this responsibility, it could be anyone they sanction 'qualified'

~RJ~
 
hbiss said:
I'm with you. But requiring periodic inspections of private residential property isn't going to happen. Sometimes you can't even get the owner to allow an inspection in order to get a C of O or a new service connected.

My philosophy is that if they want to electrocute themselves go right ahead.

-Hal
Click to expand...
Not getting service connected is usually motivation to have the inspection that is preventing connection done.
 
romex jockey said:
Hal....
we've annual fire extinguisher, annual EM , annual elevator, as well as a lot of annual (other dept's than electrical) inspections done for what are public access

Our state inspectors don't necessarily need be saddled with this responsibility, it could be anyone they sanction 'qualified'

~RJ~
Click to expand...
Thats a good point, a new service electrical contractors could offer.
In the world of plumbing, elevators and sprinklers there are annual inspections.
Even in residential around here your supposed to get your 'back flow preventer' tested annually, its a certification plumbers get.
 
For the original post, if NFPA-70E applies to the installation in question, and insurance can prove cause to deny the casualty claim, then accident attorneys would feed upon owner / operators and the entire food chain of AHJ's.

If NFPA-70 does not apply, insurance can still blame owners for cause, such as poor maintenance, or DIY negligence. Owners either lose everything, or with casualty, the accident attorneys would feed upon the property owner(s) assets, by attaching the property, garnishing wages, and tax refunds, etc..

387 U.S. 523 at Wikipedia

In this 1967 case, an apartment manager rats out tenant to health department, for unspecified cause. Perhaps noise, smell, or excess occupancy.
Tenant's appellate attorneys were sufficiently financed and talented for the Supreme court to take notice, which in their ruling said nothing about landlord's entry, only that tenants can deny local government access to the property in absence of a search warrant.

My Comments:
1) Landlords don't need to send inspectors. In most States landlords legally get emergency access same day, or 3-day advanced written notice. If tenants don't comply they can be evicted for cause, and forcibly removed by Sheriffs. In Orange County, CA tenants are rarely allowed to contest evictions for any cause in municipal courts. Evicted tenants might convince Judge Judy or Jerry Springer to select their case for entertainment value, but court TV, or any unlawful detainer case, no matter how unfair the eviction, won't get the attention of supreme courts.

2) Regardless of lacking search warrants or access, this case won't stop prosecution of building-permit violations, nor outdoor pool inspections. Vector control uses helicopters to cite owners for stagnant water in pools that can bread mosquitoes. Outdoor pools or construction missing building permits are photographed from aircraft or drone, and can be prosecuted without access permissions, or search warrants.
 
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ramsy said:
For the original post, if NFPA-70E applies to the installation in question, and insurance can prove cause to deny the casualty claim, then accident attorneys would feed upon owner / operators and the entire food chain of AHJ's.
Click to expand...

EC's would be part of that litigant feeding fest as well Ramsy

Ask me how i know

personally, i LIKE the state's holy water closing out my jobs, and quite frankly have to point out...... if there's none of them, there'll be none of us

~RJ~
 
Public access places that need license or other certification to operate probably already have required inspections on periodic basis. How well they cover electrical aspects can probably vary though.

Private property the only way you can achieve this IMO is if insurance companies would require such inspections before they will grant any coverages
 
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