680.42(C) Spa Wiring in EMT

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DSamson

DSamson

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San Francisco, CA
I'm wiring a spa. Circuit breaker panel is inside the house. This is rough-in of new construction. Planning to go from the panel, through the kitchen ceiling joist space, out through the kitchen wall, to second story deck, to the spa disconnect, all in EMT.

My question is, does 680.42(C) require an insulated ground inside the EMT? If so, is it sized per 250.122?

What's the rationale for a separate ground in addition to the EMT. What about 250.118(4)?

Thanks as always for your help.
 
DSamson said:
I'm wiring a spa. Circuit breaker panel is inside the house. This is rough-in of new construction. Planning to go from the panel, through the kitchen ceiling joist space, out through the kitchen wall, to second story deck, to the spa disconnect, all in EMT.

My question is, does 680.42(C) require an insulated ground inside the EMT? If so, is it sized per 250.122?

What's the rationale for a separate ground in addition to the EMT. What about 250.118(4)?

Thanks as always for your help.
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Will you risk a life over a setscrew that came loose ?I think 680 says you need insulated ground
 
I don't have my book but I believe if the wiring is inside the building you don't need emt. Nm cable is suitable because it says insulated or enclosed ground. The ground is enclosed in NM.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't have my book but I believe if the wiring is inside the building you don't need emt. Nm cable is suitable because it says insulated or enclosed ground. The ground is enclosed in NM.
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Depends on where the last OCP is
680.42 Outdoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.
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680.25 may apply.... And one should pay close attention to it.... As the ground would need to go back to the service.

Anyway DSamson, the answer is yes on 250.122 (That is if it is not off of a seperately derived system... Then on 66.) 250.118 gets trumped...
 
nakulak said:
680.21 A (referenced by 680.42) = yes
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Not in 2005 NEC.
680.21a is for permanently installed pools. and is not referenced by 680.42.

(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations. In the interior of a one-family dwelling or in the interior of another building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub or a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly. Wiring to an underwater light shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33.
 
The '05 is not applicable, the OP is CA*, but says roughly the same....
~ shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.
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All of 680.1X is Part I, All of 680.2X is Part II of that Article.

*We're skipping the '05, next cycle is '08 and changes....

We also don't know if it is a single family dwelling ("House" could mean anything...), or "to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub, or a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly." Multi-famliy, or custom tub???
 
stickboy1375 said:
Not this again.... Ugghhh.....
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I assume this has been beaten before????

Not trying to say the OCP needs to go to the main, just that an EGC does. The way I see it, if he's asking about 250.118, he may not have one in the feeder for the panel he's coming from - it may also be in EMT. It may not have an EGC that complies? And it would need to be a raceway, as he mentioned "New construction", and it would need to be insulated.

Nothing says you can't have an EGC at the pool equipment go to a sub panel ground bar, then that sub's EGC go to another sub's ground bar, and another EGC go back to the main.
 
e57 said:
I assume this has been beaten before????

Not trying to say the OCP needs to go to the main, just that an EGC does. The way I see it, if he's asking about 250.118, he may not have one in the feeder for the panel he's coming from - it may also be in EMT. It may not have an EGC that complies? And it would need to be a raceway, as he mentioned "New construction", and it would need to be insulated.

Nothing says you can't have an EGC at the pool equipment go to a sub panel ground bar, then that sub's EGC go to another sub's ground bar, and another EGC go back to the main.
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Your good... :grin:
 
e57 said:
Depends on where the last OCP is
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Explain to me what you mean by this?? I see no code section that relates to the last OCP. If the wiring is inside the house Art. 680.42 (C)and their is no light in the tub then you may wire it with NM cable. Once you go outside you must follow 680 Parts I & II.
 
If this is a feeder, conduit is required. If it is a branch circuit, cabling is fine inside. A supplemental breaker doesn't turn a branch circuit into a feeder (e.g. 50A branch breaker in main panel to 50A GFCI disconnect to tub -- this is all a branch circuit). But if you're running to a load center with two or more breakers, you have a feeder and conduit must be used as must an insulated grounding conductor.
 
Planning to go from the panel, through the kitchen ceiling joist space, out through the kitchen wall, to second story deck, to the spa disconnect, all in EMT.
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Sounds like a branch circuit to me.
 
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