70E and 120 V ?

[TwoBlocked]

Been told that you need to wear voltage rated gloves when using a meter in a 120v control panel even if there are no exposed conductors. All I can figure from 70E is that if you "avoid contact" you don't need gloves even if you are doing more than measuring/troubleshooting. Of course you would have an energized work permit. Am I missing something?

 

[jim dungar]

There are no hard and fast interpretations in 70E.
It is up to your company to develop their own electrical safe work practice program with specifics. NFPA 70E is simply a standard which can be used to develop your written program.

 

[mtnelect]

Please turn the power off.

 

[tom baker]

Often you can not as control panels had to energized. But more and more panels are 24vdc

 

[mtnelect]

Often you can not as control panels had to energized. But more and more panels are 24vdc

If there is a chance of electrocution, please turn the power off.

 

[TwoBlocked]

There are no hard and fast interpretations in 70E.
It is up to your company to develop their own electrical safe work practice program with specifics. NFPA 70E is simply a standard which can be used to develop your written program.

Yes, and if us guys in the field are conversant in 70E, we have a chance of affecting the company's policy in a positive way. I am trying to avoid the situation where the policies the company comes up with are so difficult to understand and follow that they tend to get ignored; the baby gets thrown out with the bath.

Over and over we hear "70E says" not "The company policy is." The policy ends up being copied verbatim from 70E. NOT so easy to understand and follow. Sooooo.... am asking you fine folks if you know where in 70E it is required to wear voltage rated gloves for 120V circuits in situations when there are no exposed conductors and contact can be avoided.

 

[ptonsparky]

My knowledge of 70E is almost nil.

IMO: The 600 volt rated gloves we had were not that difficult to work with if all you were doing is checking voltage and current. Once you get the screwdriver out, well that's another issue and it's time to turn the power Off.

 

[jim dungar]

Over and over we hear "70E says" not "The company policy is." The policy ends up being copied verbatim from 70E. NOT so easy to understand and follow. Sooooo.... am asking you fine folks if you know where in 70E it is required to wear voltage rated gloves for 120V circuits in situations when there are no exposed conductors and contact can be avoided.

You are right. NFPA70E is not a 'how to' manual even though most companies treat it as one.

Sometimes malicious compliance helps. Always get a 'live work permit' processed and signed before any 120V work including testing even if it takes 2-3 hours to collect all the signatures.

 

[TwoBlocked]

You are right. NFPA70E is not a 'how to' manual even though most companies treat it as one.

Sometimes malicious compliance helps. Always get a 'live work permit' processed and signed before any 120V work including testing even if it takes 2-3 hours to collect all the signatures.

Yeah, I know guys that do that. For most it is the tail wagging the dog through passive aggressive behavior - Jr. High power play. Same guys do the same thing with other "rules." It can escalate until a boss yells at them and then they take it to HR. I find it distasteful.

Was able to talk sense to "the" EE and got him to see that 70E states there is little arc flash risk with 120V. No need for flash gear. He still insists there is a shock hazard even if we just use a meter and "avoid contact." Hope to have another productive discussion with him.

 

[infinity]

Was able to talk sense to "the" EE and got him to see that 70E states there is little arc flash risk with 120V. No need for flash gear. He still insists there is a shock hazard even if we just use a meter and "avoid contact." Hope to have another productive discussion with him.

This is why anyone responsible for making or enforcing rules should have some hands on experience with doing electrical work. I'm glad that no one follows NFPA 70E where I work.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The section that would be cited would ve 130.7(C)(7)(a), but the exact conditions will determine the need for the voltage rated gloves. For example where all of the energized equipment is finger safe and the voltage test probes have finger guards, voltage rated gloves may not be required.

 

[PaulMmn]

As a student, I was doing something dumb-- adding a wire to a live sub-panel. Only 6 or 8 ckts! I was working 1-handed, and things were going well, when a friend asked me a question. I turned my head towards him and ZAP! I still have the screwdriver with a notch melted in it.

It was only 120 volts.

No, I shouldn't have. No, I no longer do!! And my screwdrivers now have electrical tape on the shafts.

And even though there are "No exposed conductors," 120 volts is still enough to kill you!