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He does make some valid points, but what he seems to not understand is that most people working on energized equipment do not have the training to understand how to properly evaluate what the hazard level is, hence the requirement for the labels be it from the tables or from an analysis. When the label is applied the hazard level has been identified and for a person to disregard the posted PPE requirements puts them in a difficult position defending that decision should an accident happen.
 
He makes a few valid points. But he doesn't address the fact that many panels are not so well arranged as his, nor are they properly labeled as to exactly where the various voltages are lurking, nor does he speak about the guy that doubles the size of his CC or J fuse after he's long gone. What about the outdoor panel where the guy is soaking wet and standing in mud?

What we need is to not concentrate so much on reducing PPE, but instead on the design standard. The whole reason for grouping a PLC, 24vdc, 120vac and 480vac into the same box is pure economics.
 
zog said:
He does make some valid points, but what he seems to not understand is that most people working on energized equipment do not have the training to understand how to properly evaluate what the hazard level is, hence the requirement for the labels be it from the tables or from an analysis. When the label is applied the hazard level has been identified and for a person to disregard the posted PPE requirements puts them in a difficult position defending that decision should an accident happen.
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I think for the scope of equipment and work given in the article that his points are valid. But see additional quote and comments below:

stickelec said:
He makes a few valid points. But he doesn't address the fact that many panels are not so well arranged as his, nor are they properly labeled as to exactly where the various voltages are lurking, nor does he speak about the guy that doubles the size of his CC or J fuse after he's long gone. What about the outdoor panel where the guy is soaking wet and standing in mud?

What we need is to not concentrate so much on reducing PPE, but instead on the design standard. The whole reason for grouping a PLC, 24vdc, 120vac and 480vac into the same box is pure economics.
Click to expand...

I think this quote from stickelec puts a lot of things in better perspective. My plant has equipment from WWII still in the original khaki and a few outdoor panels. The older they get the more jumbled the components are with 480/120 all interleaved on exposed terminals. My newer panels are like the article described: 480 in a small distribution corner with 24 throughout the rest. If and I do mean - IF I have 120 it's located just below the 480 on the new panels and likely GFCI protected. Our newer panels are pretty darn safe.

I differ from Zog's perspective. Our electrical people are provided with more than enough training to evaluate hazard levels. And I believe the labels are there because I want the machine serviced today, this hour. Not two days later after the guy does an audit or after lunch when he's consulted his book for the tables. But since so many people have such great faith in their own ability to stay safe, it has the same effect as if they'd never been trained.

So, as stickelec stated, in my free time along with 100's of other concepts and ideas, I plan to work out separating the 480 from the 120 from the 24 into separate panels. It won't help on the major machines but I'll have safer small custom machines. Machines were the vast majority of the work will be in a panel that only has 24Vdc circuits and communication wires.
 
pfalcon said:
I differ from Zog's perspective. Our electrical people are provided with more than enough training to evaluate hazard levels. And I believe the labels are there because I want the machine serviced today, this hour. Not two days later after the guy does an audit or after lunch when he's consulted his book for the tables. But since so many people have such great faith in their own ability to stay safe, it has the same effect as if they'd never been trained.
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At some plants I agree with this view, but having the proper training is the exception, not the rule. Most places have either no training or had poor training that consisted of some scary videos and a PPE demonstration from some guy trying to sell PPE.

I also agree on your points of newer panels being much safer by design than some of the WWII relics with undocuments modifications you find in many industrial facilities.
 
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