84" and no back splash

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2ndrat

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Hi Gang,

Here is what I have.

A kitchen with no back splash for 84" and I need 3
recepticals located on the counter to meet code.

I have heard about "Tombstone's" which mount on top
of the counter....But I have yet to find one.

Mounting recpticals under the counter top also causes a problem due to a dishwasher and lazy susan.

Any suggestions or ideas would be great.

The house is up and built so I can not change anything
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Sorry to lead you into thinking of a back splash,
"No back splash at all, just window"
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Ahh, Now I get it

So get some clear conduit and plugs and mount it on the window :D :D LOL

Sorry for being a smart a**, I couldnt help it.
I have heard of those tombstones but never used one, I would check all of your local supply houses. Sorry I couldnt be of more help.
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Wire Mold make a plug mold that comes in many flavors to blend in. maybe you have enough room between the window and counter top to fit some in?

But they don't have it in clear Jes25 :p

[ June 30, 2004, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

I have had a simular situation at a condo complex we did 2 years ago.Senario,there was a kitchen design that had a pass thu with a sink in the middle with a 14 in overhang in the front with 36 in.+ to either side to any wall.What the AHJ allowed was 4 sq`s with RS covers mounted inside the cabinet on either side of the sink.just inside the door.Who was I to argue we passed 120 units this way.
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

The Tombstones that you are refering to were made by Steel City, which is now apart of Thomas & Betts. Also these were made by Walker Duct whcih also owns Wiremold. Try Cat. No. 505F or 505H which comes with a 20 amp duplex receptacle.
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Thanks guys,

I have one month to find something to use.
We just finished the rough in today.

The county that the house is located in has no inspection of any kind, so am I the AHJ?

This is my third house and my first job as a
contractor and I want to follow the NEC code to the
book.

I'll tell you what, the 112" window that over looks
the lake sure is nice, but the kitchen is an electrical nightmare.

Here is a link to a picture of the rough in of the kitchen

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kejemere/detail?.tok=phQGiWBB0_mmDzG6&.dir=/968f&.dnm=cb0c.jpg&.src=ph

Keep the ideas coming,

Thanks again for the help!!! 2NdRat
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

The way I see it, you have a backsplash, (even if it is glass), the required receptacles MUST be located above the countertop. The architech should be paying closer attention to code requirements, and not just how the window will look at final. You could dump the issue back on the architech by asking him/her how do I make the kitchen meet MINIMUM code? How much room between the countertop and the window? Receptacles on the cabinet fronts are NOT an option per the NEC. Is there room for a plugmold strip between window and the countertop?
Rick
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Plug mold, thats a great idea! There has to be at least a 2 1/8 casing around the window, I would think. Mount it the casing if you have to. It would look not to great but it would be look better than tombstones and would be very functional. I think I would put faceless GFI's somewhere accesisble in the kit.
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Walker, a division of Wiremold makes a "tombstone" box. It's in the Wiremold cat.under pedestals. I just purchased one from my supply house to use on a loft floor that has railing all the way around. they come in a few different configurations.I think it's a Series 512.
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

I have been up against this issue before. Plugmold is the solution I used. I had just enough room to mount it between the window casing and countertop. A feed box was roughed in on each side of the window so that plugmold did not need to pass behind the sink. Good luck to ya,
Jim
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

I usually try my best to talk the general contractor and or homeowner out of installing such a window opening so you cannot meet code at the sink without a monument. In every case but one they were able to replace with a smaller window of the same length which allowed a splash to be installed. In the one case there was no window at all, just a large pass thru. The counter was expensive marble. The local inspector just gave me a nod and wink at rough in time to forget the two more needed since I put 2 into the face of the pass thru openings. We ended up with 54" between receptacles, but like I said the inspector said ok for this instance only.
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

I went to plug molds web site and asked a Tec what they they thought. She said that the Thombstone was not UL listed and that I could not use it on the counter tops. She suggested that I use a plug mold strip.

I will keep you guys posted as this progreses
in the next month.
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

You do not have to use faceless GFI receptacles, you most likely have other kitchen wall recepts, put the GFI there and run a # 12 tail to,the plugmold location. Also you can run 1 length of plugmold for the entire length under the window, to my knowledge there is no restriction on having receptacles behind the kitchen sink. It is not necessarily the way I would do it, but it is code compliant.
Rick
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

2ndrat:
If you are real careful, you can enter the plugmold thru the factory punched 1/2" knock out via a plastic romex fitting (those small Arlington penny type) and connect using the wiremold/plugmold connectors that are made to fit INSIDE the plugmold. No need for the bulky/ unsitely fittings or extension boxes at the beginning of the plugmold run. I do not know if this is a approved method of entering/connecting to the plugmold... I have done it, I accept it as an inspector. Just a bit tedious making up the connections.
Rick
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Originally posted by rickg:
and connect using the wiremold/plugmold connectors that are made to fit INSIDE the plugmold.
Click to expand...
Check the directions that come with those connectors, these connectors are not to be used for the grounding conductor. ;)

From this wiremold pdf.

W30 Pressure-Type Wire Connector ?
For common connection of two, three, or four No. 12 or No.14 solid copper conductors. Not for connection of equipment grounding conductor. 300V maximum; 20A 60? C maximum. Not for use with aluminum conductors.
Click to expand...

[ July 02, 2004, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Bob,
Wow, I never read the instructions with the plugmold, you learn something every day. Now the next time I ask someone "what kind of connector did you use on the grounds"...Thanks for the info.
Rick
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Rick, no problem and I was surprised when I happened to notice that on the directions, I had been using the connectors for the grounding conductors too.

I still do not understand why if it is good enough for hot & neutral it is not OK for grounding? :confused:

Bob
 
Re: 84" and no back splash

Thanks guys,

It sure looks like I'm going to be using the wire mold products, but I'm still not sure were I will mount them. I now have three weeks to figure this mess out.

How do we go about incorporating a building code that would make the builders have at least 3" of
counter top above the back splash? Like I said before, they think its a good look, but what about the electrical LOOK? This sure can put a bad name
on the electricians when they only have switches and ect on one side of the kitchen.

I will post the final picture when I finish.

One more thing,

The builder said," The house does not need to be inspected, so why should you have to follow the
NEC?" any thoughts or opinions on that one?

The county that this house is being built in has
"NO" permits or inspections. But as of August
all electrical work in WI must be inspected. He
is thinking that I can grandfather the house if anything ever come up. I disagree!!
 
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