A and E vs EC

[MBLES]

are there limits to the sqft or service a EC can design as an EC? or should the drawings be done by AandE?

 

[kwired]

are there limits to the sqft or service a EC can design as an EC? or should the drawings be done by AandE?

I think the answer is going to vary from location to location.

 

[ptonsparky]

Depends.

In rural NE I can do just about any or none. Your area laws or customer requirements will be the deciding factor.

 

[MBLES]

i agree. I heard someone mention in my area that they can design up to 4k sqft. i was just curious why the NEC is big on calculations for mulit family and midsize buildings if most areas wont even let you design the electrical anyway. Like you guys mentioned it depends on area.

 

[kwired]

i agree. I heard someone mention in my area that they can design up to 4k sqft. i was just curious why the NEC is big on calculations for mulit family and midsize buildings if most areas wont even let you design the electrical anyway. Like you guys mentioned it depends on area.

How about just a couple circuits of design but on a 160 acres of land - the couple circuits for the irrigation system installed on this land.

 

[jumper]

i agree. I heard someone mention in my area that they can design up to 4k sqft. i was just curious why the NEC is big on calculations for mulit family and midsize buildings if most areas wont even let you design the electrical anyway. Like you guys mentioned it depends on area.

IME, it is usually dictated by complexity and cost, not the sq. footage size on whether stamped drawings are needed for plan approval.

 

[Coppersmith]

The jurisdictions I work in allow me to design, sign, and seal up to a 400 amp service. I know of no restrictions based on square footage.

 

[tkb]

In MA we can design any system if we are the installer.
This can be a licensed individual or company.

We cannot design for hire, unless you have a PE license.

 

[follybeacher]

The jurisdictions I work in allow me to design, sign, and seal up to a 400 amp service. I know of no restrictions based on square footage.

You phrase is like you're an EC not a EE, is that correct? What do you mean sign and seal if you're not an EE/PE?

 

[kwired]

You phrase is like you're an EC not a EE, is that correct? What do you mean sign and seal if you're not an EE/PE?

He can submit pre-construction plans for approval?

 

[electrofelon]

In Washington state, I can design pretty much anything. There are some plan review requirements depending on what it is and where, but I have not had the experience that they are real fascist with the plans. I am quite surprised when I hear of these places that restrict what an EC can do. Whats with all the experience, licensing, and inspections if they arent going to let you do anything with your brain anyway? :rant:

 

[romex jockey]

In Washington state, I can design pretty much anything. There are some plan review requirements depending on what it is and where, but I have not had the experience that they are real fascist with the plans. I am quite surprised when I hear of these places that restrict what an EC can do. Whats with all the experience, licensing, and inspections if they arent going to let you do anything with your brain anyway? :rant:

The OP poses an interesting Q on just what checks and balances apply when and where.

While most of us can 'lay out' a job I.E.~'design' , it is comfortable on larger projects ,especially those that interface with mulitple trades, for an EE and/or Archy to forward plans

The kicker is , having to go toe/toe with them ,and over 'sanctioned' IE~'stamped' plans , that have been approved by state bureacracies

Some anecdotals are VD applying (1000' 480V feeders), and smokes shown next to ventilation

Having to stand one's ground opposed to an EE/Archy is rather uncomforatble as an EC , which is why most of us will create 'as builts' for the sake of our own liability

~RJ~

 

[Coppersmith]

You phrase is like you're an EC not a EE, is that correct? What do you mean sign and seal if you're not an EE/PE?

He can submit pre-construction plans for approval?

I am an EC. If I draw an electrical plan and write my name, address, licence number, and signiture on it I've "signed and sealed" it according to the county's building department. That's the phrase they use. 99% of the time I don't need drawings. I just state I'm putting in a xxx amp service on the permit. I haven't installed anything bigger than a two meter service. If it was a 400 amp 6-pack service they probably would want a drawing.

 

[Adamjamma]

you guys are so lucky.. in Jamaica anything over 60 amps needs an electrical plans submission before inspection.. but all the expert electricians here wait until they are ready for inspection to get drawings done because homeowners change up halfwy through and if the drawings dont match on day of inspection, then the inspector flunks it.. Saw one flunked because the guy put in a gfci breaker but it was not on the plan, and another flunked because the inspector saw a cieling fan in the drawing but the person only had a lightbulb there...

 

[romex jockey]

One could 'flunk' me ,simply for being old & ugly Adam.....?~RJ~

 

[Adamjamma]

hmm.. betcha I might be uglier... Used to go to Mr Peanut near Richmond Virginia and heard they closed it because of too many ugly people in the parking lot... the day after I ate some peanuts in the parking lot and drank two cokes on my lunch break... but back then I was 430 lbs

 

[goldstar]

As it has already been mentioned, it depends on the area or state you’re working in. As I understand it, here in NJ an EC is not permitted to design electrical services for commercial buildings. That works for me because the liability is greater than what the job is worth. In order to have a POCO here supply power for a residential service over 200A you have to file a load survey showing that you need the size service you are requesting. Otherwise, anyone could ask for a 1600A service just because they think it will raise the value of their house.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

In NJ an EC can do plans on a class 3 structure per N.J.A.C. 5:23-2.15(f)vii(1) and these are class 3 structures. Remember it is the building that decides the structure not the unit.

i. Group B less than 7,200 square feet, two stories, 40 feet high;
ii. Group M less than 4,800 square feet, one story, 40 feet high;
iii. Group S-1 less than 4,200 square feet, one story, 40 feet high;
iv. Group S-2 less than 7,200 square feet, two stories, 40 feet high;
v. Group R-3 as permitted in the building subcode and including accessory private garages, radio andtelevision antennae and swimming pools;
vi. Group R-5 as permitted in the one- and two-family dwelling subcode and including accessory privategarages, radio and television antennae and swimming pool

 

[goldstar]

In NJ an EC can do plans on a class 3 structure per N.J.A.C. 5:23-2.15(f)vii(1) and these are class 3 structures. Remember it is the building that decides the structure not the unit.

i. Group B less than 7,200 square feet, two stories, 40 feet high;
ii. Group M less than 4,800 square feet, one story, 40 feet high;
iii. Group S-1 less than 4,200 square feet, one story, 40 feet high;
iv. Group S-2 less than 7,200 square feet, two stories, 40 feet high;
v. Group R-3 as permitted in the building subcode and including accessory private garages, radio andtelevision antennae and swimming pools;
vi. Group R-5 as permitted in the one- and two-family dwelling subcode and including accessory privategarages, radio and television antennae and swimming pool

Chances are you may be correct Rick. You would still have to show calculations in order to get the size service you are requesting. I will have to some research when I get back from Aruba. Still more liability than I am willing to expose myself to IMHO.

 

[electrofelon]

Otherwise, anyone could ask for a 1600A service just because they think it will raise the value of their house.

IS there really any reason we should have a bureaucracy to prohibit this? I dont have any problem with someone having a 1600A service.... I dont even have a problem with the POCO charging the customer a ton of money and still installing a 25KVA transformer and #2 service drop to serve it