A question with a funny story attached...

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c2500

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My brother in law called me the other day. He is selling his Mother's house (she died several years ago) and was asking about the fuse box. The buyer is getting an FHA loan and the possibility of a service upgrade to go to breakers came up. To my limited knowledge, I am not aware of a clean fuse box being an issue to an FHA sale. For those that inspect, is it a possible issue?

He then ask what an upgrade would cost. I said (sight unseen) $2000. He choked. I did everything I could not to laugh as I explained (sight unseen) some of what I could be facing if I were to do an upgrade.

You gotta love family. Anyway, if anyone knows if there is an issue to fuse boxes with FHA loans, please post.

Thanks,

c2500
 
mdshunk said:
I can't speak about the FHA, but I know that the insurance companies are driving most of the fuse box replacements.
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Which is odd, considering fuse boxes aren't necessarily dangerous, though they are a sure sign of outdated wiring.
 
Unless the language has changed recently, the FHA electrical certification of a house spells out a minimum maintenance electrical configuration that serves the connected load. If you can do a load calculation using 2005 NEC 220.83 and not exceed the let through of the service, then the service is OK, and the conversion to circuit breakers is simply a sale negotiation ploy.

There are also requirements about circuits per square footage, laundry and kitchen 20 A circuit, no hazards, etc.
 
c2500 said:
He then ask what an upgrade would cost. I said (sight unseen) $2000. He choked. I did everything I could not to laugh as I explained (sight unseen) some of what I could be facing if I were to do an upgrade.
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That's a heck of a "brother-in-law" price. There is a guy on Craig's list in Iowa that will do it for $15 an hour. :D
 
al hildenbrand said:
...If you can do a load calculation using 2005 NEC 220.83 and not exceed the let through of the service, then the service is OK, and the conversion to circuit breakers is simply a sale negotiation ploy.

There are also requirements about circuits per square footage, laundry and kitchen 20 A circuit, no hazards, etc.
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I know the "Federal Pacific panels are a safety issue" line has been a successful negotiation ploy in at least one case :cool:.

As to the 20A kitchen circuit, laundry circuit, or any GFCIs, they weren't an issue for my FHA loan. Then again I may be far enough off the beaten path that the appraiser just doesn't care and will sign the form anyway. I don't remember how many 20A circuits my house had, but most of them were run in #14 and there wan't a GFCI in the place a couple months ago.
 
I changed out a 100A fuse panel in a home that a guy was selling about 3 years ago.

The seller said that it was a FHA requirement that the 100A service and fuse panel be replaced before the loan would go through.
He said the minimum service was 125A...breakers only, no fuses.
I suppose that he knew the facts because he had a buyer that was waiting to close the FHA loan, which he did and bought the home after I finished.

I didn't argue the point, I just did the work:smile: .

steve
 
JDSmith,

In my experience, the language of the requirements varies from location to location. I don't have enough experience to know to what extent.

At the mothership level you can work with the "FHA portal" web page" at HUD. There's a search bar on that page plus the 800 number.

Also, this is at the top of a search on "electric service" :
HUD FHA HOC Reference Guide Electrical and Heating




A: Electrical Service:
1. May be either circuit breakers or fuses.

2. Appraisers should examine the electrical box to ensure that there are no frayed or exposed wires.

3. Existing 60-amp service is acceptable if it appears that this is adequate amperage for the appliances present in the property, or those considered "standard" if the present appliances appear to be less than found in the "standard" home.

4. Knob and tube wiring is acceptable if found to be in good condition and a minimum of 60-amps.


​
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You can look at the actual page here.

Personally, I have found the actual document, the FHA Electrical Certification, that I sign (as a licensed EC and Master Electrician) and submit to the closing of a sale of a particular property, to be very difficult to source. In the past, the actual document has had the exact language of the "minimum electrical maintainence requirements for an existing dwelling". The FHA loan underwriter, realtor or FHA appraisor have been sources of the document.
 
ultramegabob said:
I would like to see a picture of his work.
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Funny you should say that as that is just what you get for $15, a picture of a new panel hung over the old panel.:grin:
 
mivey said:
Funny you should say that as that is just what you get for $15, a picture of a new panel hung over the old panel.:grin:
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hung over heck I would be hard pressed to tape it to the panel for that price..just picture alone is worth 15 bucks..and HO has to hang it them selves..
 
Minuteman said:
That's a heck of a "brother-in-law" price. There is a guy on Craig's list in Iowa that will do it for $15 an hour. :D
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Listen, I changed a water heater out for them and all I got was a bottle of booze and my sister whining when I said I would have her a bill shortly. The equivilant of $25 for a gas to electric conversion (the gas was added and a hack installed it, it was unsafe so I went back to electric) on a Saturday afternoon starting at 6:00 PM. then back on Sunday morning. Needless to say, I have not done a thing for them since. I dropped my 501C3 (not for profit) status a while back as well as family discounts.:D

c2500
 
al hildenbrand said:
JDSmith,

In my experience, the language of the requirements varies from location to location. I don't have enough experience to know to what extent.

At the mothership level you can work with the "FHA portal" web page" at HUD. There's a search bar on that page plus the 800 number.

Also, this is at the top of a search on "electric service" : You can look at the actual page here.

Personally, I have found the actual document, the FHA Electrical Certification, that I sign (as a licensed EC and Master Electrician) and submit to the closing of a sale of a particular property, to be very difficult to source. In the past, the actual document has had the exact language of the "minimum electrical maintainence requirements for an existing dwelling". The FHA loan underwriter, realtor or FHA appraisor have been sources of the document.
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Odd I had an appraiser look at my house to day. The whole Oh you must be an electrician thing came up.

The appraiser was of the belief that everyone must have breakers for FHA loans.

I?ve done so many up grades on SFH?s because the ?rule? you must have breakers. And its all been a lie!!!
 
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