Abandened cable removal responsability

[sweyers]

who is responsable for removal? what portion of existing abandoned cables need to be removed?

 

[celtic]

who is responsable for removal?

IMO, whomever is declaring the cables "abandoned" is responsible for removal...ultimately, the person doing the phyisical work.

For the definition of abandoned, check 800.2

what portion of existing abandoned cables need to be removed?

One example is stated in 800.52(B)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Celtic ---IMO, "abandoned" in article 800 only applies to communication cables. The OP never mentioned communication cables.

 

[celtic]

Celtic ---IMO, "abandoned" in article 800 only applies to communication cables. The OP never mentioned communication cables.

No, he didn't....but his profile leads me to believe we that's what we are talking about:

How are you related to the electrical industry?:
management of security installations

 

[hbiss]

The owner of the premises or building is ultimately responsible for the removal of abandoned communications cables. That responsibility may be passed on to the lease holder to require the removal of all cable installed by them at the termination of the lease.

The physical removal can be done by anybody hired to do the job. I would assume that if you cause a cable to become abandoned through your work you would be the one to remove it according to your contract.

I understand that there is talk of declaring old plenum listed cables hazardous because the dust they emit contains lead. In that case all removals would have to be performed by a hazmat company.

Abandoned cables need to be removed where they are accessible and to the point that they enter a wall or other part of the structure.

-Hal

 

[petersonra]

what is the difference between an abandoned cable, and a previously used cable left in place for possible future use?

 

[iwire]

what is the difference between an abandoned cable, and a previously used cable left in place for possible future use?

If the cables are terminated and tagged for future use they are not abandon.

Cut off one end it now becomes abandon and needs removal.

 

[hbiss]

If the cables are terminated and tagged for future use they are not abandoned.

And since its easier and cheaper to just hang tags on cables rather than remove them I can see this becoming abused. A tag at one end needs to be meaningful, usually pointing to where the other end is located with a corresponding tag. So a tag that says "old phone cable" isn't going to cut it. Neither is a rats nest of old unused cables in a ceiling even if they have tags on them.

In either case it would be obvious to me if I were an AHJ that somebody was trying to circumvent removal.

And like I said, many leases now require the removal of all tenant installed cabling when they move out regardless of whether it may be reused. This is the only way to control the build up. You put it in you remove it.

-Hal

 

[iwire]

Hal I was not saying if I agree with that rule, just passing the info.

Maybe I am reading it wrong but IMO tagging is not enough, the cables must remain terminated and tagged.

'terminated at both ends at a connector or other equipment and not identified'

 

[petersonra]

Hal I was not saying if I agree with that rule, just passing the info.

Maybe I am reading it wrong but IMO tagging is not enough, the cables must remain terminated and tagged.

'terminated at both ends at a connector or other equipment and not identified'

IMO you are reading it wrong.

Abandoned Communications Cable. Installed communications
cable that is not terminated at both ends at a connector
or other equipment and not identified for future use
with a tag.

It is clearly abandoned only if it is not terminated at both ends AND not tagged. If it is terminated at one end, or tagged, it is not abandoned.

 

[mdshunk]

I say the responsibility belongs to whoever can get a change order signed first. This is a money-maker, particularly if the inspector has your back.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

As has been stated, a lot of building owners have caught up to the changes that were instituted in the code, and put it in the lease that the tenant clears the ceiling of 'abandoned' cable as the lease is up or they are moving. I have seen some aggressive moves by some building departments and fire marshals in regards to this topic. It can become very costly.

 

[hbiss]

This is a money-maker...

I agree. You make money taking out the old and you make money putting in the new. You can't make much money reusing what's there.

-Hal

 

[mdshunk]

This is a money-maker...

I agree. You make money taking out the old and you make money putting in the new. You can't make much money reusing what's there.

-Hal

And you make a smidge more when you sell the scrap to the recycle company.

 

[tom baker]

This requirement started with the 2002 NEC. You could make the argument that it only is required to remove cable installed since the 2002 NEC was adopted in your area.
The code is not retroactive.

 

[mthead]

abandoned cable removal responsibility

abandoned cable removal responsibility

IMO you are reading it wrong.



It is clearly abandoned only if it is not terminated at both ends AND not tagged. If it is terminated at one end, or tagged, it is not abandoned.

When you pounce on one word in "caps" like that "AND" --oh I just melt!
Do you get along well with your local elec insp?

 

[mkoloj]

Is there any requirement as to how the cabling is marked?

 

[petersonra]

When you pounce on one word in "caps" like that "AND" --oh I just melt!
Do you get along well with your local elec insp?

I don't deal with inspectors. But if I did, and they tried to enforce removal of cables under this provision I would politely point just what the code defines abandoned to mean.

There are good reasons why they might well have defined a cable terminated at either end as not abandoned, and why an unterminated cable with a tag on it is also not abandoned.