Abandoned comminication cables

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carterb

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Is the requirement to remove abandoned cables within a ceiling space a requirement if it is used for enviromental air or does it include spaces above drop ceilings which have a return air duct system?
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

The 2002 code seemed to address enviromental air spaces per the comments in the 2002 code changes material. What specifically changed in the 2005 code.I am looking for specific backup.
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

Look at 800.52(B) in the 2002 code. It does not say anything about the location of the abandoned cables. It just requires them to be removed if they are accessible.

800.52(B) ... The accessible portion of abandoned communications cables shall not be permitted to remain.
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Don
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

Surly if possible unusable cables should be, and are required to be removed.

It is still important to know the NEC definition of abandoned communications cables.

800.2 Definitions.

Abandoned Communications Cable. Installed communications cable that is not terminated at both ends at a connector or other equipment and not identified for future use with a tag.
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Re: Abandoned comminication cables

So I don't have to remove any cable that has RJ45 connectors left on both ends? That seems simple enough.

Steve
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

Originally posted by steve66:
So I don't have to remove any cable that has RJ45 connectors left on both ends? That seems simple enough.
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Don't forget the tag. :)
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

Originally posted by steve66:
So I don't have to remove any cable that has RJ45 connectors left on both ends? That seems simple enough.

Steve
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Steve, I read termination as connected to a piece of equipment. (like a wall outlet, server or something similar.) Just having RJ45 on both ends might and not labeled, might not "qualify" as termination. For future use, just having a piece with a connectors with no tag might cause problems for you later.

Just my thoughts.

Kfenn
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

Originally posted by kfenn:
Steve, I read termination as connected to a piece of equipment. (like a wall outlet, server or something similar.) Just having RJ45 on both ends might and not labeled, might not "qualify" as termination.
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The definition states;

terminated at both ends at a connector or other equipment
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An RJ45 is a connector, no more needs to be done.

I also really think this is a very unenforceable section of code.

Say I get hired to add some lighting circuits to a building and the inspector comes out to the job on that permit.

Now the inspector sees a pile of obviously abandon com cables in the ceilings while looking at my lighting work.

What happens next?

Fails me for it?

Sends the building owners a notice?

Bob
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

I also don't believe that a RJ45 connector on the end of the cable is a "termination" for the purposes of this section.
don
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

I know I'm playing the devils advocate here. I hate rats nest's of comm wiring as much as the next guy. But the definition seems quite clear - a cable with a connector at each end is not abandoned.

Let me take this one step farther. Say I have a patch panel with cables terminated at it via RJ45's. Now I disconnect one cable and leave it hanging. Is it now abandoned, and do I have to remove it?

I guess my point is that I agree with Bob, this is unenforceable. We have to rely on the honesty of contractors to remove cables that are really abandoned.

Or from Don's point of view, maybe we have to rely on the inspectors to be reasonable enough to not make someone pull out a bunch of wire just because it got unplugged.

Steve
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

kfinn:

Yes, unlabeled wires could be almost useless. That was part of my point. The wires may be useless, but hey, they have connectors, so they can stay!

The way I read the definition, if a cable has connectors OR labels, it is NOT abandoned. Is that right? You have to use boolen logic to read that definition.

If Not A = Not B And Not C then:

A = B or C.

Programmers must write the NEC :D
 
Re: Abandoned comminication cables

Originally posted by steve66:
The way I read the definition, if a cable has connectors OR labels, it is NOT abandoned. Is that right? You have to use boolen logic to read that definition.

If Not A = Not B And Not C then:

A = B or C.

Programmers must write the NEC :D
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No that is not correct.

It is A or B and C = D

connector or equipment and labeled = not abandoned

Abandoned Communications Cable. Installed communications cable that is not terminated at both ends at a connector or other equipment and not identified for future use with a tag.
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Re: Abandoned comminication cables

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I'm even more confused. Now it looks like the definiton depends on where you put the parenthesis.

Let:

A= abandoned
C= connector
E = equipment and
L = labeled, then the definition reads:

A = Not (C Or E) And Not L

or is it:

A = Not (C Or E And Not L)

or:

A = Not (C Or (E And Not L))

This definition really sucks. But I think only the first one above makes sense. So to get the definition of "Not abandoned cable":

Not A = Not (Not (C or E) And Not L)
Not A = (C or E) Or L

I can't believe I have to use boolean logic to decipher a NEC definition. But I still think to get the definition of "Not abandoned cable", the first "not" in the definition changes the AND to an OR by boolean logic. So cables can remain if they are labeled, or if they have connectors.

Just my opinion:

Steve
 
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