Abandoned Telecom cable

[hockd]

I work for a utility but in the teleocm engineering group and we are closing one of our sites. I am going to remove all abandoned wire out on the floors after the furniture has been removed but have a question with the code requirement as it applies or may apply to the main telephone room. I have several pieces of PBX gear, fiber temrination, fiber mux, and of course the MDF ( Main Distribution Frame)

As I am intending to remove and reclaim all PBX and bay (Relay rack) mounted equipment as well as the bays themselves I am confused about what consititutesabandoned cable.

My intention is to unplug or cut off the cable from the varuious pieces of equipment while leaving them in their spots where they terminate on the MDF. This potentially will leave a waterfall of cable draping down from the cable runways in the middle of the room.

Is this acceptable or do I need to pull out the cable from its terminations on the MDF? It seems to me that this would be deemed acceptable but I don't know for sure and there is no one here in our facilities group that follows the code that closely.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I need to conserve budget, who doesn't today, but donot wish to leave my company in a bad situation with an AHJ. BTW the site is to be donated to the Goodwill Industries Group.

Thank you all,

Dennis D. Hock
Principal Engineer
DTE Energy--Network Engineering

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Dennis,
I think you need to remove it if it is communication cable. There is no code requirement to remove abandoned power cable.

Abandoned Communications Cable. Installed communications cable that is not terminated at both ends at a connector or other equipment and not identified for future use with a tag.

800.25 Abandoned Cables.
The accessible portion of abandoned communications cables shall be removed. Where cables are identified for future use with a tag, the tag shall be of sufficient durability to withstand the environment involved.

 

[zbang]

If the inside cable plant is in good shape and the space is likely to be rented to someone else leave it!! First, any racks or cabinets installed might be considered lease-hold improvements (at least if they're bolted down), thus they're property of the landlord. Second, unless you have some very uncommon passive componants, it'll probably cost more to pull them than install new parts elsewhere, and do you really want to keep the used parts? Third, good existing cable usually adds value to the property and seldom lowers it. (At one company, the decision to lease a particular building was partly based on the installed cable being almost ready to use, that saved us about $200k.)

Since the site is going to be used by GoodWill, I'd leave as much of the cable and connections as possible for their reuse, unless they ask for it to be removed.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

zbang,
What about the code rule that says to remove it?

 

[zbang]

800.2- Abandoned Communications Cable. Installed communications cable that is not terminated at both ends at a connector or other equipment and not identified for future use with a tag.

Leave the connectors on or mark both ends (preferable with useful info) for reuse and it's not abandonded, therefore it can stay in place. That is assuming it's a conforming installation to begin with. I'm usually inclined to pull out any special or really hideous runs but leave well-done structured wiring in place.

 

[JFletcher]

Also see 770.2, 770.25 and 830.2, 830.25

 

[hbiss]

If the inside cable plant is in good shape and the space is likely to be rented to someone else leave it!!

That thinking is what causes the rats nests up in ceilings and is exactly what the Code is trying to address. You have no idea what the next tenant is going to need and for sure they aren't going to start pulling out cable that they don't need.

That's why the rule now is if you installed it you remove it when the lease is up. Matter of fact many leases now have that requirement because the landlord doesn't want to get stuck with the job.

Abandoned cable is all cable that is in the ceiling space and otherwise where it is accessable. Cable in conduit, within walls and non-accessable ceilings etc. can stay.

-Hal

 

[chris kennedy]

800.2- Abandoned Communications Cable. Installed communications cable that is not terminated at both ends at a connector or other equipment and not identified for future use with a tag.

Leave the connectors on or mark both ends (preferable with useful info) for reuse and it's not abandonded, therefore it can stay in place. That is assuming it's a conforming installation to begin with. I'm usually inclined to pull out any special or really hideous runs but leave well-done structured wiring in place.

This would be a tedious process as would be yanking it out. IMO, take what you want, abandon the rest and let the next tenant/owner deal with it, unless a clause in your lease would prove this to be less than cost effective. I'm demoing a school now and spent the last two days yanking out data/com on the 2nd floor alone.

 

[hbiss]

Isn't that what you get paid for?

-Hal

 

[chris kennedy]

Isn't that what you get paid for?

-Hal

I'm not really sure what they pay me for or why I still have a job.:-?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

This would be a tedious process as would be yanking it out. IMO, take what you want, abandon the rest and let the next tenant/owner deal with it, unless a clause in your lease would prove this to be less than cost effective. I'm demoing a school now and spent the last two days yanking out data/com on the 2nd floor alone.

Chris
maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but read it again.

 

[chris kennedy]

Chris
maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but read it again.

I don't think the OP is getting an electrical inspection when he moves out, so he won't be sited for any violation of xxx.25. That said, I'm off to demo a few hundred miles of cat5 on the 3rd floor of the school.(new owners are paying for it)

 

[jdsmith]

The way I read 800.2 you don't have to remove any abandoned wiring as long as it's still tagged. Any telco facility should have all wiring labeled or tagged now, so it shouldn't be a big deal to disconnect the terminations, leave the existing tagging in place, and maybe leave behind the drawings that show the numbering scheme and routing.

 

[iwire]

I don't think the decision of removing of old cabling should be up to the EC, the EI or the NEC. It should be up to the person that owns the cabling or building.

 

[hbiss]

The reason old wiring needs to be removed is not for neatness. It's because even plenum cable contributes significantly to the fire load as well as noxious smoke. That is why the NEC addresses the issue, it's one of protecting life and property.

Any telco facility should have all wiring labeled or tagged

Only if you live in Oz.

I don't think the decision of removing of old cabling should be up to the EC, the EI or the NEC. It should be up to the person that owns the cabling or building.

Same as they should leave sprinklers, fire systems or even GFIs up to the owner also, right?

-Hal

 

[iwire]

Same as they should leave sprinklers, fire systems or even GFIs up to the owner also, right?

Not even close to the same thing.

When a landlord has a vacant space do building codes require all unused carpet and furniture be removed because they also add to the smoke load?

I hate a rats nest in a ceiling as much as the next guy but I am just guest in the building not the owner.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The reason old wiring needs to be removed is not for neatness. It's because even plenum cable contributes significantly to the fire load as well as noxious smoke. That is why the NEC addresses the issue, it's one of protecting life and property.
...
-Hal

I really don't buy that. If it really was about protection life and property it would not have the exception that permits you to tag it and leave it. Apparently the CMP thinks that the tags make the fire load and smoke issue disappear. Also how is the same cable a hazard when it is not being used, but not a hazard when it is being used?
Also in most buildings the fire load and smoke production from the cables, abandoned or otherwise, is small compared to that from the building furnishings and finishes.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I don't think the decision of removing of old cabling should be up to the EC, the EI or the NEC. It should be up to the person that owns the cabling or building.

In most buildings today, the tenant contract includes removing the data/communication cables as part of the agreement.

 

[iwire]

In most buildings today, the tenant contract includes removing the data/communication cables as part of the agreement.

And who makes that contract ........... the building owner which is just the person who IMO has the authority to do so. :smile:

 

[peter d]

Also in most buildings the fire load and smoke production from the cables, abandoned or otherwise, is small compared to that from the building furnishings and finishes.

Furthermore, if this was such an issue, why are PEX, CPVC, PVC, ABS, Corzan plumbing sytems and CPVC sprinkler pipe permitted to be used in commercial occupancies in many states?

I don't buy the "smoke load" argument either. I never have and I never will.