Above ground pool installation

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arfrcchic

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Watertown, NY
Been doing some research on electrical installation for an AG pool. Using 20A gfci breaker with 12-2 individual conductors. Sharing the pvc with the convenience outlet. Since the pool pump circuit is gfci at the breaker can I use a standard breaker for the convenience receptacle and install a gfci receptacle? If so would I have to run 2 separate grounds or would 1 ground in the conduit be sufficient?
 
One insulated EGC #12 or larger. Your GFCI set up is fine since there is no lighting conductors involved.
 
arfrcchic said:
Been doing some research on electrical installation for an AG pool. Using 20A gfci breaker with 12-2 individual conductors. Sharing the pvc with the convenience outlet. Since the pool pump circuit is gfci at the breaker can I use a standard breaker for the convenience receptacle and install a gfci receptacle? If so would I have to run 2 separate grounds or would 1 ground in the conduit be sufficient?
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The convenience outlet doesn't need to be another dedicated circuit, you probably know that.
 
Just because it is above ground doesn't mean that it doesn't have to follow the rules of an in ground pool. If you pool fits the description below then you are good to go

Storable Swimming, Wading, or Immersion Pool. Those
that are constructed on or above the ground and are capable
of holding water to a maximum depth of 1.0 m (42 in.), or
a pool with nonmetallic, molded polymeric walls or inflatable
fabric walls regardless of dimension.
Click to expand...
 
And just to directly address a potential concern of the OP:
If you have two circuits with an upstream GFCI breaker, you must run separate neutrals, but a common EGC is just fine.
The GFCI unit measures the current difference between hot(s) and neutral. It does not care directly about current on the EGC.
 
GerryB said:
The convenience outlet doesn't need to be another dedicated circuit, you probably know that.
Click to expand...

I knew that but they currently don't have another circuit to tie into. I was planning on using the convenience outlet circuit to run a uf cable to a new flood light for the pool area, however.
 
GoldDigger said:
And just to directly address a potential concern of the OP:
If you have two circuits with an upstream GFCI breaker, you must run separate neutrals, but a common EGC is just fine.
The GFCI unit measures the current difference between hot(s) and neutral. It does not care directly about current on the EGC.
Click to expand...

I knew that but since the conv. circuit and the protected gfci (off the breaker) pump circuit, ehich has to be isolated, were sharing the same conduit, I just wanted to make sure they didn't have to be isolated in its entirety...including ground.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Just because it is above ground doesn't mean that it doesn't have to follow the rules of an in ground pool. If you pool fits the description below then you are good to go
Click to expand...

It's a permanent pool. Bonded 4 places with equipotential ground ring around the pool 18-24" from pool side and 6"deep. Pool pump water bonded, pump is within 6-10' of pool side. Conv. outlet with 6-20.' The only thing I'm not sure about is the timer. Been looking at different ones and the automatic timers range from $60-160...not sure whether to go with a plug in type or an intermatic timer.
 
infinity said:
One insulated EGC #12 or larger. Your GFCI set up is fine since there is no lighting conductors involved.
Click to expand...

Actually there is down the line. I plan to run a dedicated circuit to the pool pump and then a separate circuit to a convenience outlet. All would be running to each box through conduit. But from one of the boxes I planned to run a uf cable underground to the side of the house and mount a flood light. The light would be off the convenience circuit. The light could be load off the gfi receptacle though. Is that ok?
 
My whole point in asking the question is I was trying to avoid buying two gfci breakers. There a bit espensive! Especially since a gcfi receptacle could be installed at minimal cost at the user end.
 
A "deadfront" GFCI cost less then a GFCI breaker, but takes a little more time and some extra materials to install it compared to just snapping in the breaker so after all is said and done may not save much anyway.
 
arfrcchic said:
I knew that but since the conv. circuit and the protected gfci (off the breaker) pump circuit, ehich has to be isolated, were sharing the same conduit, I just wanted to make sure they didn't have to be isolated in its entirety...including ground.
Click to expand...

Above in red.... Not true:happyno:
Let's see if I can make clear what was already stated.

You don't have to have a separate circuit for the convenience receptacle. Meaning it CAN be on the same circuit as the pump. Unless customer just wants it, I never run a separate circuit for the general/convenience receptacle.
 
Little Bill said:
Above in red.... Not true:happyno:
Let's see if I can make clear what was already stated.

You don't have to have a separate circuit for the convenience receptacle. Meaning it CAN be on the same circuit as the pump. Unless customer just wants it, I never run a separate circuit for the general/convenience receptacle.
Click to expand...

My inspector sent me a document illustrating above ground pool requirements for NYS. In it it states:

The circuit line for the pump motor must be a continuous line going directly to the panel box, and is to be isolated from all other receptacles.

That sounds to me like the PUMP needs to be a dedicated circuit. I already knew the conv. receptacle didn't need to be dedicated. I'm putting a flood light on that circuit. It was the pump that I said needed to be isolated.
 
arfrcchic said:
My inspector sent me a document illustrating above ground pool requirements for NYS. In it it states:

The circuit line for the pump motor must be a continuous line going directly to the panel box, and is to be isolated from all other receptacles.

That sounds to me like the PUMP needs to be a dedicated circuit. I already knew the conv. receptacle didn't need to be dedicated. I'm putting a flood light on that circuit. It was the pump that I said needed to be isolated.
Click to expand...

Perhaps there is a local amendment requiring that but the NEC does not. :)
 
210.23(A)(2) could require an additional circuit if the pool pump is more then 50% of the branch circuit rating.
 
iwire said:
The convenience receptacle has a VA load of 0.
Click to expand...
Probably true, and in many cases I likely wouldn't install an additional circuit myself (I can also count on one hand how many pools I have ever connected), but that is not what is said in that section. The pool pump shall not exceed 50% of the branch circuit rating if there is other outlets on the circuit, regardless of what the load may or may not be.

That said, if you ran a 20 amp circuit the pump would need to be more then 10 amps before this applies - that probably doesn't happen all that often.
 
kwired said:
Probably true, and in many cases I likely wouldn't install an additional circuit myself (I can also count on one hand how many pools I have ever connected), but that is not what is said in that section. The pool pump shall not exceed 50% of the branch circuit rating if there is other outlets on the circuit, regardless of what the load may or may not be.

That said, if you ran a 20 amp circuit the pump would need to be more then 10 amps before this applies - that probably doesn't happen all that often.
Click to expand...

This is the explanation I found.
 

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