Above ground pool.

[bradleymattlin]

Good afternoon everybody,

Just did a new install on a new above ground pool with a double insulated pool pump. Obviously no lug on the motor. So did bond ring and attach at four spots and bonded the water. Is this where you stop the bonding? Or does this need to connect to the equipment grounding conductor. I understand 680.26 (b) saying the bonding conductor doesn’t have to go back to a service equipment. Is that because the old style pumps did the connection with the lug???

 

[letgomywago]

I've always gone back to the equipment grounding bar at the pool panel. The not needing to go back to the service equipment is saying you don't need that #8 all the way back at the house just to the actual grounding bar of all the pool equipment. Some people were thinking you needed to run it all the way back like it was a GEC not a bond that's connected to an EGC.

 

[bradleymattlin]

I've always gone back to the equipment grounding bar at the pool panel. The not needing to go back to the service equipment is saying you don't need that #8 all the way back at the house just to the actual grounding bar of all the pool equipment. Some people were thinking you needed to run it all the way back like it was a GEC not a bond that's connected to an EGC.

So it’s only a 120 circuit with a 20 amp twist lock outlet. I took the bond wire and tied it with the equipment grounding conductor. But just didn’t know if that was correct. First time with a double insulated pump and having to do that.

 

[augie47]

680.26(B)(6) {'17} requires the equipment bonding #8 to be brought bacvk to the pump and connect to the equipment grounding conductor where the pump is double insulated.
680.26(B) (General) notes the bonding conductor doesn't need to attach to any panelboards.

 

[Little Bill]

680.26(B)(6) {'17} requires the equipment bonding #8 to be brought bacvk to the pump and connect to the equipment grounding conductor where the pump is double insulated.
680.26(B) (General) notes the bonding conductor doesn't need to attach to any panelboards.

I've never had to deal with this in all the pools I've wired, so I've wondered how to connect the bonding wire to the EGC of the circuit. I can see how on a hardwired pump, but what about a pump with a cord and plug? Do you run a jumper into the receptacle box and tap/splice onto the EGC there?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I've never had to deal with this in all the pools I've wired, so I've wondered how to connect the bonding wire to the EGC of the circuit. I can see how on a hardwired pump, but what about a pump with a cord and plug? Do you run a jumper into the receptacle box and tap/splice onto the EGC there?

Yes... connect to the equipment grounding conductor anywhere that you can.

 

[david]

I've always gone back to the equipment grounding bar at the pool panel.

it is perfectly fine to do that

The not needing to go back to the service equipment

that is correct

is saying you don't need that #8 all the way back at the house just to the actual grounding bar of all the pool equipment.

that is not correct , you can use that option if you want to.
And it may make for a cleaner instalation.

The equal potential bonding is required to connect to the premise system eguipment ground

Some people were thinking you needed to run it all the way back like it was a GEC not a bond that's connected to an EGC.

You could though, not required to use that option as well, not sure why you would want to, unless the pool is in close proximity to the service

680.26(B)(6) {'17} requires the equipment bonding #8 to be brought bacvk to the pump

That's correct and long enough for a replacement pump that might not be double insulated

and connect to the equipment grounding conductor where the pump is double insulated.

That's not correct. It would be correct if there is no other connection to the premise equipment grounding.

680.26(B) (General) notes the bonding conductor doesn't need to attach to any panelboards.

That is correct but you can still use that as an option

Some electricians don't want to bring a tail out of the device box at the pump location and split bolt it to the pump circuits eguipment ground.

They prefer to bond the #8 to the pool panels equipment grounding bussbar

 

[letgomywago]

it is perfectly fine to do that

that is correct

that is not correct , you can use that option if you want to.
And it may make for a cleaner instalation.

The equal potential bonding is required to connect to the premise system eguipment ground

You could though not required use that option as well not sure why you would want to unless the pool is in close proximity to the service

That's correct and long enough for a replacement pump that might not be double insulated

That's not correct. It would be correct if there is no other connection to the premise equipment grounding.

That is correct but you can still use that as an option

Some electricians don't want to bring a tail out of the device box at the pump location and split bolt it to the pump circuits eguipment ground.

They prefer to bond the #8 to the pool panels equipment grounding bussbar

Can cite articles for all your corrects and not corrects.

 

[david]

Can cite articles for all your corrects and not corrects.

In post # 4 augie47 gave you the code references

680.26(B)(6) {'17} requires the equipment bonding #8 to be brought bacvk to the pump
680.26(B) (General) notes the bonding conductor doesn't need to attach to any panelboards.

 

[david]

Can cite articles for all your corrects and not corrects.

2024 NEC
680.26 (B)
680.26 (B) (6) (a)

 

[david]

2024 NEC
680.26 (B)
680.26 (B) (6) (a)

One more reference on this subject would be
680.21(B) & 680.14
By bonding the #8 to the pool panels equipment ground instead of the pool pumps branch circuit equipment ground you could use any chapter 3 wiring method approved for that location

If you bond it at the pool pump, the branch circuit has to have an insulated 12awg or larger. You could not use Uf cable

 

[david]

One more reference on this subject would be
680.21(B) & 680.14
By bonding the #8 to the pool panels equipment ground instead of the pool pumps branch circuit equipment ground you could use any chapter 3 wiring method approved for that location

If you bond it at the pool pump, the branch circuit has to have an insulated 12awg or larger. You could not use Uf cable

I have no idea why there is a difference in wiring methods when bonding to the pump branch circuit equipment ground vs bonding to a lug on the metal pump housing.

Maybe to encourage the electrician to find somewhere else to make that bond, I don't think that is the reason but that may be the end result

 

[david]

I've never had to deal with this in all the pools I've wired, so I've wondered how to connect the bonding wire to the EGC of the circuit. I can see how on a hardwired pump, but what about a pump with a cord and plug? Do you run a jumper into the receptacle box and tap/splice onto the EGC there?

I have to doubled check, book is in the car, I believe this rule also applies to hydro massage bathtubs

 

[david]

I've never had to deal with this in all the pools I've wired, so I've wondered how to connect the bonding wire to the EGC of the circuit. I can see how on a hardwired pump, but what about a pump with a cord and plug? Do you run a jumper into the receptacle box and tap/splice onto the EGC there?

I have to doubled check, book is in the car, I believe this rule also applies to hydro massage bathtubs

I checked the 2017 code it is required under 680.74 (B)

 

[Little Bill]

I checked the 2017 code it is required under 680.74 (B)

My question was not if it was required, but how to do the connection.

 

[david]

My question was not if it was required, but how to do the connection.

The ones bonding at the pump location are drilling a whole in the bottom of the device box. Pig tailing a #12 and split bolting the connection on the outside of the box.

But as I said it's becoming more common to see the #8 bonded in the pool panel

For the hydro massage tub a split bolt type method might work best