Above Ground Swimming Pool

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jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
Electron Traffic Controller- Journeyman
1. Can romex be run from residential garage sub-panel to garage exterior wall JB, and spliced to incoming THWN from 3/4" PVC underground ckt for above ground pool receptacle? The reason I ask is someone mentioned ground wire had to be insulated, but I thought there was an exception for residential? I understand the pool is 48" deep, which means it must comply with part 2 of 680 (for permanent installed pools).

2. Confirming; Equipotential bonding does not get connected to sub-panal or ground rod, just ring around pool, 4 points attached to pool, hit water skimmer for water bond, and circulation motor ?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Electrical Contractor
680.21(A)(4) is what you were asking about. I agree with Infinity on this. Above ground pool 48" deep gets wired the same as an inground pool.


(4) One-Family Dwellings. In the interior of dwelling
units, or in the interior of accessory buildings associated
with a dwelling unit, any of the wiring methods recognized
in Chapter 3 of this Code that comply with the provisions
of this section shall be permitted. Where run in a cable
assembly, the equipment grounding conductor shall be permitted
to be uninsulated, but it shall be enclosed within the
outer sheath of the cable assembly
 

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
Electron Traffic Controller- Journeyman
does 680.22(A)(1) (circulation pump) satisfy the required outlet referenced in 680.22(A)(3)(general purpose) or are they 2 separate issues ? '11 NEC
 

frani

Member
Dazed and Confused here...........

Dazed and Confused here...........

680.21A4 states that from the panel you can use romex to a j-box and then to conduit using an insulated ground in a single family. Understood. However, I'm still a bit confused by #680.25B. If you are feeding the pool from an MLO panel does that MLO panel need to have a insulated ground? I'm not asking about the circuit to the pool motor. It seems as though it says that if you have an existing MLO panel,fed with SER (non-insulated ground) that is okay. But, in a new installation if you have an MLO panel the ground in the SER has to be insulated.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Let's get something straight. The thread talks about an above ground pool but that doesn't matter unless the pool 42" deep or less. If that is the case then of the bonding etc applies.

If this is above ground and more than 42" then the rule of an in ground pool apply.

That being said in the 2014 the NEC requires a feeder (680.25) the equipment grounding conductor must be insulated. Thus if there is an existing sub panel that does not have an insulated equipment grounding conductor then you cannot wire to that panel unless it is an existing panel in a separate structure

680.25(B) Grounding. An equipment grounding conductor shall be
installed with the feeder conductors between the grounding
terminal of the pool equipment panelboard and the grounding
terminal of the applicable service equipment or source of a
separately derived system. For other than feeders to separate
buildings that do not utilize an insulated equipment grounding
conductor in accordance with 680.25(B)(2), this equipment
grounding conductor shall be insulated.
So my answer to the poster above (frani) is YES to the question and the ser cannot be used and must have an insulated egc
 

frani

Member
Thank you!

Thank you!

Thank you Dennis for clarifying this for me. One more question..... if you have a main breaker panel and the ground to the city water/rods is un-insulated do you need to put in an insulated wire to the water/rods in order to wire the pool from that panel? If so, why can you run romex (because of the un-insulated ground) in the basement of a single family house? Thank you for your help with this. Frani
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Thank you Dennis for clarifying this for me. One more question..... if you have a main breaker panel and the ground to the city water/rods is un-insulated do you need to put in an insulated wire to the water/rods in order to wire the pool from that panel?
You are talking about the grounding electrode conductor for the house not an equipment grounding conductor. No you do not need an insulated ground on the grounding electrode conductor.


If so, why can you run romex (because of the un-insulated ground) in the basement of a single family house? Thank you for your help with this.

It depends on what the nm is being used for. Are we talking a feeder? I don't think so --I think you are talking about to a motor for the pool pump. To be honest I really don't understand the need for the equipment grounding conductor to be insulated so I don't understand why they allow a pool pump to be wired in nm inside a single family dwelling.

The feeder, of course, controls many aspects of the pool such as ool lights etc so I assume they feel that it is more important to have extra protection on the equipment grounding conductor.
 

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
Electron Traffic Controller- Journeyman
Just a heads up, CT does not fool around with licensing enforcement. If you are planing to work in CT you best have a CT license and permit.
frani, I believe , is from CT, so 2014 code wouldn't apply........yet
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Just a heads up, CT does not fool around with licensing enforcement. If you are planing to work in CT you best have a CT license and permit.

Unless you live in one of the sparsely populated border towns. ;) Some of them don't even have an electrical inspector.

For the record, I do have a CT electrical contractors license.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Unless you live in one of the sparsely populated border towns. ;)
Point taken, I don't get a lot of calls to sparsely populated areas.

But do you agree where they have enforcement they are kind of tough?

CT is a state that even you are not supposed to DIY even LV landscape lighting.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Point taken, I don't get a lot of calls to sparsely populated areas.

But do you agree where they have enforcement they are kind of tough?

CT is a state that even you are not supposed to DIY even LV landscape lighting.
I'm sure it is, I just have not experienced it.

Case in point: I did a job in one of those border towns (actually, I have done a bunch). A person converted their garage into a home based business and I wired it. I asked the homeowner if the town was involved and she said the only thing they cared about was the sign they were putting out in front of their house. :blink::lol: I did the whole job without a permit, and neither did anyone else who worked on it.

The last time I was employed by a CT based contractor in 99/00, I generally found inspections to be a joke, at least in the new construction market. Again, this is not in the sticks but the suburbs. I'm sure in the cities and towns in CT with full time inspectors and building departments, it's much tougher than that.
 
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