Aboveground Pool

[bure961]

We have a 18' aboveground composite pool with a 20amp gfci recept. at pump / motor. Gfci is in wp inuse box / cover. Should this be replaced with a twist lock plug and single recept feed with a gfci at main panel ?
A change will be made to install a water bond in skimmer bonded to lug on pump motor. I am not sure about a equipotental ring around pool since pool has been up for 8-10 years and really not sure where it could be connected to the four points Pool is surrounded with crushed stone some places at 20" and others up to over 4' wide of crushed stone. There is a cyclone Fence about 4' away that borders the pool on 2 sides.

Is there something else to do to make this pool much safer and NEC complient besides from taking it down ?
Thanks for any information given here.

 

[Little Bill]

We have a 18' aboveground composite pool with a 20amp gfci recept. at pump / motor. Gfci is in wp inuse box / cover. Should this be replaced with a twist lock plug and single recept feed with a gfci at main panel ?
A change will be made to install a water bond in skimmer bonded to lug on pump motor. I am not sure about a equipotental ring around pool since pool has been up for 8-10 years and really not sure where it could be connected to the four points Pool is surrounded with crushed stone some places at 20" and others up to over 4' wide of crushed stone. There is a cyclone Fence about 4' away that borders the pool on 2 sides.

Is there something else to do to make this pool much safer and NEC complient besides from taking it down ?
Thanks for any information given here.

Changing the GFCI protection from a receptacle at the pool to a GFCI at the panel will not add to the safety measure. However you probably won't have to replace the GFCI breaker as often as you might have to change the receptacle.

You really need the bonding ring but may be difficult since you already have the stone down. If you could just trench out a narrow trench with a pick/mattock that might not disturb the landscape too much. You're not supposed to use sheet metal screws for grounding/bonding but if it's your own pool I believe I would do that to attach lugs in four of the posts. Just use a finer thread that might get you two threads engaged.
IMO, it's better than nothing.

 

[bure961]

Thanks Bill for your quick response, two things my post are composite and I was thinking I needed a twist lock plug and recept for pump.

 

[Little Bill]

Thanks Bill for your quick response, two things my post are composite and I was thinking I needed a twist lock plug and recept for pump.

If there is nothing metal in/on the pool then all you need is the bonding ring and a jumper to the pump and water bond.

Only reason you would need a twist lock is if that's what type cord cap was on the pump.

 

[Michael15956]

We have a 18' aboveground composite pool

Is it really 18 foot above ground, or 18 inches? Makes a difference.

 

[bure961]

Sorry about that Michael its " 18' round aboveground pool "

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sorry about that Michael its " 18' round aboveground pool "

Just remember if the pool is more than 42" deep than it is considered a permanent pool and all the rule of 680 part II apply.

 

[FionaZuppa]

can you list the model of the pool?
a fence just 4ft away? i would earth rod near the fence, tie fence to rod, rod to pump bond, and tie all that to service gnd.
besides anything else to tie to on the pool itself, a copper ring around the pool bonded to pump would be good. just not sure how you can do that in your situation. the bonding is really there to take away differentials between the "pool" and surrounding items (anything you can touch). eg, pool water and metal ladder handle, ladder handle and the surface you step on, wet pool "deck" surface and a metal fence, etc etc. thats how i would do it.

If there is nothing metal in/on the pool then all you need is the bonding ring and a jumper to the pump and water bond.

Only reason you would need a twist lock is if that's what type cord cap was on the pump.

my only concern with this is lack of water bonding. an older pump may not bond motor frame to water the way you would want it too. if there is nothing on the pool that is metal then i would at least use a metal ladder and make sure that ladder is properly bonded and is touching the water at all time when in use, etc. with all plastic you could still become a resistor between a potential differential, which is what you want to avoid.

 

[Little Bill]

can you list the model of the pool?
a fence just 4ft away? i would earth rod near the fence, tie fence to rod, rod to pump bond, and tie all that to service gnd.
besides anything else to tie to on the pool itself, a copper ring around the pool bonded to pump would be good. just not sure how you can do that in your situation. the bonding is really there to take away differentials between the "pool" and surrounding items (anything you can touch). eg, pool water and metal ladder handle, ladder handle and the surface you step on, wet pool "deck" surface and a metal fence, etc etc. thats how i would do it.


my only concern with this is lack of water bonding. an older pump may not bond motor frame to water the way you would want it too. if there is nothing on the pool that is metal then i would at least use a metal ladder and make sure that ladder is properly bonded and is touching the water at all time when in use, etc. with all plastic you could still become a resistor between a potential differential, which is what you want to avoid.

I mentioned the water bond, as in he needs to add one and bond to it.

If there is nothing metal in/on the pool then all you need is the bonding ring and a jumper to the pump and water bond.

 

[iwire]

a fence just 4ft away? i would earth rod near the fence,

What is it, do you the North American stockpile of ground rods?

Enough already, there is nothing to be gained by adding a ground rod to a fence that is in the ground.


Bond it to the pool equipment? Sure, very effective safety improvement.

Add a ground rod? A waste of time with no increase in safety.

 

[iwire]

Just remember if the pool is more than 42" deep than it is considered a permanent pool and all the rule of 680 part II apply.

A funny thing about that.

I own a portable pool that is 48" deep, it comes with a filter that is doubly insulated so it cannot be connected to a bonding grid even if you wanted too.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

A funny thing about that.

I own a portable pool that is 48" deep, it comes with a filter that is doubly insulated so it cannot be connected to a bonding grid even if you wanted too.

Not exactly because if that is the case then the pump equipment grounding conductor should be connected to the grid...

680.26(B)(6)(a) Double-Insulated Water Pump Motors. Where a
double-insulated water pump motor is installed under the provisions
of this rule, a solid 8 AWG copper conductor of sufficient
length to make a bonding connection to a replacement
motor shall be extended from the bonding grid to an accessible
point in the vicinity of the pool pump motor. Where there
is no connection between the swimming pool bonding grid
and the equipment grounding system for the premises, this
bonding conductor shall be connected to the equipment
grounding conductor of the motor circuit.

 

[iwire]

Not exactly because if that is the case then the pump equipment grounding conductor should be connected to the grid...

There is no pump equipment outlet.


Using Charlie Bs and Dons view the NEC does not apply to my pool because it is not installed per 90.2(A).

It takes no tools to assemble, it plugs in, it is put away after use.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would argue whether that is portable...

 

[iwire]

I would argue whether that is portable...

Well good thing you are not the AHJ.

No permits, no inspections, bring it home and add water.

I have this same pool in 15' x 48"

 

[FionaZuppa]

680.30 specifically applies to these "portable" pools, which also says 680 Part-I applies. bonding is described in 680 Part-II.

Electrical installations for storable pools, storable spas, and storable
hot tubs must also comply with Part I of Article 680.

Author’s Comment:
The requirements contained in Part I of Article 680 include
the locations of switches, receptacles, and luminaires.

 

[iwire]

680.30 specifically applies to these "portable" pools, which also says 680 Part-I applies.

Hang on my friend, you have not followed along all the way.

Many times the topic comes up if the NEC applies beyond the outlet. I for one feel it does. However there are intelligent and respected people including some of the other mods here that feel the NEC does not apply to things that are not 'installed' per 90.2(A)

90.2 Scope.
(A) Covered. This Code covers the installation of electrical
conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications
conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical
fiber cables and raceways for the following:

Now if an item is not 'installed' (no NFPA definition of installed available) it is outside the scope of the NEC as defined by 90.2(A) then nothing in 680 applies.

 

[FionaZuppa]

i think its a big fail if one was to just plop a perm/portable/storable pool or spa into a location where everything around it was simply "existing" and expect all that to be NEC exempt.

as far as that fence goes, 4ft is close enough for me to bond it (nec says out to 3ft). and that fence likely has high ohms between it and earth, the poles are likely in concrete. i would still add a earth rod near the fence regardless of those who think it serves no purpose.

OP wanted to know about being compliant with NEC , AND, to possibly make it safer. OP also noted its been there for a long time. its more of a portable/perm item than it is storable in its use. a copper bond ring tied to fence and pool pump is the way i would "make it safer". and if a truely portable unit it should have GFI on the plug, but i would opt to swap the breaker to GFI for the BC feeding that pool gear.

 

[iwire]

i think its a big fail if one was to just plop a perm/portable/storable pool or spa into a location where everything around it was simply "existing" and expect all that to be NEC exempt.

It has nothing to do with existing it has to do with installation

If you place a table lamp on a table and plug it in did you install it? I say yes but many say no.

as far as that fence goes, 4ft is close enough for me to bond it (nec says out to 3ft). and that fence likely has high ohms between it and earth, the poles are likely in concrete. i would still add a earth rod near the fence regardless of those who think it serves no purpose.

Bond it, that is a safety improvement. Adding a ground rod will do nothing but provide exercise to the person pounding it in.


Concrete is not an insulator, if it was concrete encased electrodes would not be effective yet they are.

 

[FionaZuppa]

an earth rod directly into the earth will be way different than same rod being encased in concrete and inserted into the ground. i am not suggesting earth rod for bonding purposes, its there to provide additional electrical paths for the grounding system. the MH video showed three earth rods many feet apart providing ~20 ohms back to service. this is a safety benefit for a few $$ in some earth rods.

Concrete is not an insulator, if it was concrete encased electrodes would not be effective yet they are.

whaaa? insulator is inverse of conductor. if you wish to normalize, pick one, everything is an insulator, or everything is a conductor. i think that was in my EE101 ~25yrs ago.