Adding a branch circuit directly at the meter?

[retirede]

https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/

This thing raises a lot of issues in my mind. Nothing is mentioned regarding NRTL listing. Is there even a listing category?

How can this be code-compliant, especially given the emergency disconnect requirement in 2020?

Thoughts?

 

[texie]

https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/

This thing raises a lot of issues in my mind. Nothing is mentioned regarding NRTL listing. Is there even a listing category?

How can this be code-compliant, especially given the emergency disconnect requirement in 2020?

Thoughts?

There are others out there like this. Also used for PV line side taps and similar to meter mounted manual transfer switches. I understand some POCOs in CA accept them. I agree this raises a lot of questions code wise. And getting POCO buy-in will be though for most.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Interesting…

ConnectDER approved to connect in Florida’s capital city

The City of Tallahasee has approved ConnectDER meter collars for residential solar installations, adding Florida to the list of several states with tests and/or rollouts.

pv-magazine-usa.com

 

[texie]

Interesting…

ConnectDER approved to connect in Florida’s capital city

The City of Tallahasee has approved ConnectDER meter collars for residential solar installations, adding Florida to the list of several states with tests and/or rollouts.

pv-magazine-usa.com

I would bet that this is a city owned POCO and not a Coop and certainly not a an IOU.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

There are others out there like this. Also used for PV line side taps and similar to meter mounted manual transfer switches. I understand some POCOs in CA accept them. I agree this raises a lot of questions code wise. And getting POCO buy-in will be though for most.

There are product standards and listed product for those, but subject to utility approval. The local utilities in this area don't approve them, and some of the utilities that do approve these devices, only do it when they install and own the device and charge the customer a monthly fee.

I don't see how the PV charger connection is code compliant in any installation where the service disconnect is not located at the meter.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Ok, no panle upgrade.
What about the riser or service drop.
Would like to read more on how it works. I take it it does a load calculation.
100 amps is 100 amps. I thought meter sockets were 80% rated.

So will this allow us to install a 200 amp riser for the existing 100 amp service panle. Will this require a larger GEC. Some power company's require one in the meter and some do not.
Now what if there a 400 (320)amp already.
Ahh more questions than ansawers.
Could this change the code laungue on service conductors.
Around here the riser is by electrician. The underground is by utility. Riser on house is per NEC and inspected. Underground is per utility an exempt from inspection from AHJ.

Going to take a wait and see approach once more information can be provided on just how it works.
Right now I would say bad idea. It would have to load shed some how.
Edit: Now what about that cord to the vehicle. Max lenght ?subject to physical or severe damage.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Taking a quite read through 400
400.8 (7).
Then there is 400.10
Also scan 625.
615.17
625.19
Working my head around 625.40.
If attached directly to the meter how does the cord qualify as a feeder or branch circuit. Would the device have built in over load protection. If so it is ahead of the main. Now it the device has some sort of main disconnect incorporated. Is the service conductors now a feeder. Would this change the the MBJ location if so and so on. New code language will be a hand full. This I would think would be much different than a back up generator or PV line side tap. I think the only item in common would be line side tap.

625.42
110.25

Then when I get to 625.46 and 625.48.
Then we're off to 702 and 705.
I'm going to follow this one for sure.

 

[retirede]

Taking a quite read through 400
400.8 (7).
Then there is 400.10
Also scan 625.
615.17
625.19
Working my head around 625.40.
If attached directly to the meter how does the cord qualify as a feeder or branch circuit. Would the device have built in over load protection. If so it is ahead of the main. Now it the device has some sort of main disconnect incorporated. Is the service conductors now a feeder. Would this change the the MBJ location if so and so on. New code language will be a hand full. This I would think would be much different than a back up generator or PV line side tap. I think the only item in common would be line side tap.

625.42
110.25

Then when I get to 625.46 and 625.48.
Then we're off to 702 and 705.
I'm going to follow this one for sure.

Yeah, lots of issues/complications. Thanks for the comments, that’s why I started the discussion.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Another item is 230.66
That may give utility to do what ever they want.
Could this be out out in risers and secondarys to the meter enclouser.
Who is liable if it melts down.
I work in one area that utility provides meter enclouser. Not required to be listed.
I do not have a 2020 yet to see if there was a change in wording like they did in 2017 for 230.66.
I better tool up.
Edit, I should add the 80% on meter enclouser is for continuse use. They ones we use are for a 200 amp rating with a meter socket of 160 amp continuous use and so on Up to 400 amp then we go to CT.

 

[robertd]

If the POCO owns it and installs it, is it even covered by NEC?

 

[retirede]

If the POCO owns it and installs it, is it even covered by NEC?

No, but any wiring connected to it would be. And that wiring isn’t downstream of the existing service (or emergency) disconnect.

 

[GoldDigger]

No, but any wiring connected to it would be. And that wiring isn’t downstream of the existing service (or emergency) disconnect.

And at a minimum, any equipment up to a separate OCPD disconnect would have to be service rated.

This type of collar connection has been used for PV integration but the PV circuit for line side connection is relatively well understood and regulated.

A collar with integral transfer switch has been used for generator connection, but the "extra" connection is not an output for POCO power.

 

[Jraef]

I have many of the same questions, but to address the NRTL issue, it is UL listed (at least the meter collar is).

Another thing I find disturbing is that the article headline says "Siemens..." but there is no mention of any connection to Siemens in anything else, other than the fact that I THINK the breaker inside appears to be a Siemens. Once I see one misleading thing like that, my scam alert hackles go up.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I have many of the same questions, but to address the NRTL issue, it is UL listed (at least the meter collar is).

Another thing I find disturbing is that the article headline says "Siemens..." but there is no mention of any connection to Siemens in anything else, other than the fact that I THINK the breaker inside appears to be a Siemens. Once I see one misleading thing like that, my scam alert hackles go up.

Says here they are made for Siemens..

Siemens and ConnectDER partner to provide home EV charging directly through meter socket

ConnectDER, the developer of a meter collar that integrates between the home’s electric meter socket and the meter itself, will supply Siemens with a proprietary plug-in adapter for electric vehicle chargers. The new device will enable electric vehicle (EV) owners to charge EVs by connecting...

www.greencarcongress.com

 

[brantmacga]

I would bet that this is a city owned POCO and not a Coop and certainly not a an IOU.

That is correct…. City of Tallahassee has their own utility company. They serve a small portion of Leon County as well. The rest of the county is Talquin EMC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[retirede]

I have many of the same questions, but to address the NRTL issue, it is UL listed (at least the meter collar is).

Another thing I find disturbing is that the article headline says "Siemens..." but there is no mention of any connection to Siemens in anything else, other than the fact that I THINK the breaker inside appears to be a Siemens. Once I see one misleading thing like that, my scam alert hackles go up.

When I zoom in, it looks like “Eaton” on the breaker, but I could be wrong.

Once installed, this breaker becomes a service disconnect and 90% of the time it won’t be grouped with the existing service disconnect.

Some utilities may go for it because it allows the residence to consume more power without upgrading the service. More revenue.

 

[AC\DC]

It does say eaton