Customer sold his house but AHJ said his panel needs to have a main breaker. Right now its wired from meter to the panel's main lugs. I told him I can put a 100Amp breaker in but I would have pull longer wires in also because the ones going to lugs would be to short to reach new breaker. I gave him a quote of $250 plus materials. He said that was to high,I said OK have a nice day. Was I to high?
Adding main breaker
- Thread starter guschash
- Start date
- Status
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
guschash said:
If you ever want to have a business, you were anything but to high for this area. You may live in a grass hut and eat rice. For that lifestyle you may be to high.
- Location
- Massachusetts
$250 labor, how long do you think it would have taken.
More than 2 Hours, including the time you already spent on it?
It sounds low to me.
For what it is worth you can splice service conductors in the panel so depending on the condition of the existing service conductors that may be an option.
I think most of us would try to sell a service upgrade for this house and make some real money.
More than 2 Hours, including the time you already spent on it?
It sounds low to me.
For what it is worth you can splice service conductors in the panel so depending on the condition of the existing service conductors that may be an option.
I think most of us would try to sell a service upgrade for this house and make some real money.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I agree $250 would be low for around here. How much did you plan on spending on the materials?
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Ow. Be thankful he turned you down. Playing with kids pays way more.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
I don't work with stuff that is located upstream of the service panel. But doesn't the meter generally have some type of disconnecting means? Can you take credit for a disconnect at the meter, or would that require you to redo the wiring such that the N-G bond takes place before the main panel? Just curious.guschash said:
But my real question is this: Why is an "AHJ" involved here? Did you mean to say that a Home Inspector, perhaps one hired by a buyer's real estate agent, cited this as a violation? Remember that an existing condition need not be brought up to current code, unless the AHJ (and I mean the electrical inspector) believes that the existing condition represents a hazard to life or property.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
guschash said:
why would you need longer wires? no room to splice inside the existing panel?
if all you are doing is adding the breaker and a few short lengths of wire, $250 sounds about right to me, maybe a little light. No more than $75 worth of parts.
OTOH, it might be more trouble than it is worth to go out and do a 2 hour job for you.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I'm assuming there's enough space on the breaker buss-bar to install a 100 amp plug-in breaker. It seems kind of odd that a breaker panel with more than 6 circuits would have been insstalled if the electrician (way back when) was observing the 6 switch rule. Anyway, as others have mentioned you can use the Polaris (NSI) insulated bugs or use barrel crimps to extend the SE wires to the breaker. This would be the least expensive way out as I can't imagine it would take you more than 2 hours to do. If you have to install a 100 amp breaker in it's own w/p enclosure next to the meter pan you're way out of whack in terms of $$.
IMHO I would take the advice of some of the others and try to sell them an upgrade. But, then again, if $250 seems out of line to them it'll be a cold day in hell before they go for an upgrade at around $2K.
IMHO I would take the advice of some of the others and try to sell them an upgrade. But, then again, if $250 seems out of line to them it'll be a cold day in hell before they go for an upgrade at around $2K.
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
Was that existing panel a split-bus type?
Jeff Weissman Electric
Member
- Location
- Park City, Utah
guschash said:
Try to get into the practice of giving a turnkey price.
Price it for the whole job with materials & labor included. No need on a free estimate to break out the labor & materials.
Get comfortable giving out quotes over the phone for these little jobs, under a few hundred dollars.
Your confidence over the phone & reputation should get these little jobs for you with out having to make a trip out there.
Know what questions to ask the HO. Have them walk out to the breaker panel & tell you the manufacture.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Good advice.JeffWeissman said:
Offering a service upgrade was the best advice, however this being a home seller, they are not intrested, in investing a penny in a home they are selling, for some strange reason, some homeowners never seem to do any improvements on their homes, and still want the highest resell price for the home.
We had a customer call, almost the same as you described, I gave him an idea of the cost of a new service, His reply was, "are all you guys so expensive." 6 months later we were working down the street from this home, and it still had a for sale sign on it, the neighbor said 2 buyers already backed out, there must be something wrong with the house, now with the market on a down trend, he is loosing big time, penny wise and pound foolish.
We had a customer call, almost the same as you described, I gave him an idea of the cost of a new service, His reply was, "are all you guys so expensive." 6 months later we were working down the street from this home, and it still had a for sale sign on it, the neighbor said 2 buyers already backed out, there must be something wrong with the house, now with the market on a down trend, he is loosing big time, penny wise and pound foolish.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
guschash said:
If you think that he needs a new panel there must be a reason. If I think that a new panel is the best and safest way to go then I give a price for that and nothing else. I don't think anyone ever really wants a new panel.
I had a customer that left his old FPE ( Fire Prone Electric ) in the house until it started smoking. Then it was an emergency call.
Are you even sure that this panel is convertable to main breaker? I will not install a main that can't be bolted or locked into position.
People don't like to spend any money on a house that they are getting ready to sell but that's just to bad.
dduffee260
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
Ditto Dale, I see alot of main breakers installed where they are just 100 amp breakers snapped into place. Alot of electricians do not realize that you have to fasten or bolt down the breaker. This is my position on this anyways, what do any of you others think?
- Location
- Massachusetts
dduffee260 said:
The NEC requires that a back fed plug in breaker be retained somehow.
You can get hold down clips from the panelboard manufacturers for most panel and breaker combinations.
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
dduffee260 said:
I think 408.36(F) requires it!
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
iwire said:
This is true but you still see a lot of them just snapped in. I was only trying to show that this job may not be as simple as some would make it out to be. Around here if you lengthen or replace the service cable a permit is required ( now they have got you ). They require that you bring the ground up to code ( they are in love with the two ground rod idea ). It can take more than two hours just to bring the ground up to code ( plus materials ). This panel probably isn't marked so now you have to deal with that. Half the breakers in the panel aren't the right size and the water heater isn't bonded. Before it's over you are in for a lot more than $250 or $275. Better to look things over and see what will needs to done to complete the job.
Most of the cheap sellers don't want to do anything until the inspector refuses to sign off on the permit so that means two inspections.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Dale the fact that your area requires an EC to fix things that have nothing to do with the work they where hired to do I find disturbing.
Here in MA there is an actual rule prohibiting that type of electrical enforcement.
If the inspector sees items that should be corrected there is a rule for that as well.
It is then in the hands of the property owner to decide who is going to fix the items.
Here in MA there is an actual rule prohibiting that type of electrical enforcement.
If the inspector sees items that should be corrected there is a rule for that as well.
It is then in the hands of the property owner to decide who is going to fix the items.
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