ADT's bonehead installation team

[aelectricalman]

I hate when I come back to a job that has been roughed-in and ADT has been there and ran their Low-Voltage alarm wires through my line voltage holes. My circuit feeds in the basement have ADT's wires strung through my holes like spagetti. Other than the fact that I can not stand it, is there anything wrong with doing this? Are there any code violations, harmonics, or just plain out low or line voltage interference. Thank you.

 

[petersonra]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

A couple things.

Are these considered class 1, 2, or 3 circuits? There are different rules for each. My eyes glaze over when I read that part of the code.

Does the voltage rating of insulation on the cable they used exceed the maximum voltage in the chases they used?

 

[hbiss]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

I've had the same problem with these guys. Nothing wrong code wise just real sloppy work. In my case when they didn't have my holes to get them where they needed to go they just ran their cables in front of the studs. The sheet rock will cover it they said.

I spoke to the owner and showed him the problems and how the rockers are going to put screws through the wiring. I pointed out that I realize that ADT will take care of any damaged wiring but he isn't going to like having his new finished walls and ceilings cut up to find them. Apparently that did the trick because he got them on the phone and refused to pay. Even then it took a couple of tries by their crack installers but eventually they at least got everything in the walls.

-Hal

 

[southernboys]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

one question i dont know if its a nec code or an ahj rule whichever it is i know that i can not run my cable tv or phone wires through the same hole as my romex isnt the adt wires the same thing

 

[hbiss]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

The NEC does not prohibit it but if you are not allowed to by local amendment then yes, security wiring would be subject to the same rules.

-Hal

 

[cdonal0527]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

Running low voltage wiring with high voltage wiring is prohibited in the NEC (800.52 (A)(2). ADT (or any other company's) alarm system will malfunction and false alarm due to the inductance from the high voltage wiring. Don't let anyone tell you it is allowed!

 

[hbiss]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

Umm, see 800.52 (A)(2) exception #1.

-Hal

 

[southernboys]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

hbiss reread your exception I think were mainly talking in houses ive personally never seen or ran a raceway in a house

 

[hbiss]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

Looks pretty clear to me.

800.52 Installation of Communications Wires and Cables

(A) Separation from Other Conductors

(2) Other Applications
Communication wires and cables shall be separated at least 50mm (2in) from conductors of any electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, or medium power network-powered broadband communication circuits.

Exception No 1: Where either (1) all of the conductors the electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, or medium power network-powered broadband communication circuits are in a raceway or in metal sheathed, metal clad, non-metallic-sheathed, type AC, or type UF cables, or (2) all of the conductors of communications circuits are enclosed in raceway.

Last I looked homes are wired with either metal clad, non-metallic-sheathed or type AC no?

-Hal

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

southernboys,

never seen or ran a raceway in a house

Come to the Chicago area. Chicago and many of the surrounding suburbs have codes that require dwelling units to use EMT.

Also Hal's citation is correct. Read the complete exception. If the power is in NM cable, no seperation is required.
Don

 

[southernboys]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

hbiss I stand corrected and I apologize somehow I overlooked the nm rule. running emt in a house are the houses wooden studs or metal. how much do you run in emt ie just the homeruns to 4sqs in the cieling or the whole circuit I take you guys also use mc cable rather then romex?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

how much do you run in emt ie just the homeruns to 4sqs in the cieling or the whole circuit I take you guys also use mc cable rather then romex?

Everything is in EMT. For the most part AC, MC and NM are not permitted to be used. Most of the houses are wood construction, but a few were done with metal studs.
Don

[ April 01, 2005, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]

 

[ryan_618]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

Remember the rule is for seperation of conductors not cable assemblies.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

So, the consensus is, you can run communications wiring in the same stud holes as NM in a residential electrical scheme, outside of areas which require EMT. Is this correct? Thank you.

 

[tom baker]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

So, the consensus is, you can run communications wiring in the same stud holes as NM in a residential electrical scheme, outside of areas which require EMT. Is this correct? Thank you.
Yes that is correct per the NEC, but not recommended per BISCI standards

 

[jeff43222]

Re: ADT's bonehead installation team

How do you do remodeling work if everything is required to be in EMT? How do you get runs of EMT inside the walls once the studs are up? Or does everyone in Chicago have their electrical system surface mounted?

I'm having a hard time imagining being unable to use NM. I just did a full-gut kitchen remodel, and I used NM for everything.