Advice on dividing new construction residential power & lighting circuits

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Nathan68

Nathan68

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Broadway, Virginia, USA
Since i just returned to residential electrical trade, I'd like a few pointers on grouping lighting and outlets circuits in new construction. I think I tend to over engineer, i.e. dedicating a circuit for bath fan/light/heater. Is there a general expectation for number of lights or ceiling fan/lights or outlets permissible on a single circuit? I cannot count the number of times I've had to add Outlet circuits in even newer homes because the contractor, even though within code, skimped on out let circuits. Thanks in advance for comments.

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My personal preference is to not mix lighting with receptacles. For instance, I might spread a lighting circuit out through 3 bedrooms, the hallway and the bathroom, and run 2 receptacle circuits to the beds and hall, plus the 20a bath circuit.

My thinking is if someone plugs in a faulty item and trips the breaker, at least the lights will still work so they can safely make their way to the panel.
 
480sparky said:
My personal preference is to not mix lighting with receptacles. For instance, I might spread a lighting circuit out through 3 bedrooms, the hallway and the bathroom, and run 2 receptacle circuits to the beds and hall, plus the 20a bath circuit.

My thinking is if someone plugs in a faulty item and trips the breaker, at least the lights will still work so they can safely make their way to the panel.
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In residential I do put lights and receptacles on the same circuit.

My reason is this: You never know what will cause a circuit to fail and trip a breaker and cause the lights to go out. If the breaker to a bedroom trips the family members are normally familiar with their own room and this will not cause a problem. The lights to hallways and stairway will still be on. If I need to trun off the breaker to the master bedroom to work on lights or receptacles I don't need to trun off half the house. And it makes it easier and more clear to mark the panel. Master bedroom: lights & receptacles.

Either way will work just fine and it would have been nice if someone back in the good old days had come up with a wiring standard but that didn't happpen.
 
Nathan68 said:
Since i just returned to residential electrical trade, I'd like a few pointers on grouping lighting and outlets circuits in new construction. I think I tend to over engineer, i.e. dedicating a circuit for bath fan/light/heater. Is there a general expectation for number of lights or ceiling fan/lights or outlets permissible on a single circuit? I cannot count the number of times I've had to add Outlet circuits in even newer homes because the contractor, even though within code, skimped on out let circuits. Thanks in advance for comments.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The code says very little on how to circuit general lights and receptacles so there are many options. I have changed the way I typically do things several times over the years. In the beginning, I would do lights and plugs separately, and would even do plugs on #12 often. More recently, but before AFCI's I would do lights and plugs together but run quite a few more circuits than the minimum code calculation the square footage would require. Now I am closer to code minimum thanks to AFCI's. I like to keep things logically circuited, for intuitiveness and easier labeling. Ill generally see what the code minimum number of circuits is, see how the house breaks up, and usually up the number by a few. I have less of an issue with being closer to code minimum as I used to. I seem to be less and less open to "what ifs" and code minimum is fine 99.2% of the time if you talk to the client about things like possible air conditioners. Space heaters can certainly be an issue but a new or remodeled house generally has an appropriate heating system so I dont see the need to crazy with that what if.
 
I always put lights separate from receptacles. Having grown up in a house with Edison base fuses, 15 amp, and lights and receptacles on the same circuit, even the basement light, having to go down into the basement in the dark, without tripping over furniture along the way, finding where the flashlight was left, by me, the kid, is an experience I would not want a customer to go through.

Also, this way, I can turn off the receptacle breaker to work in a room and still see what I'm doing! Or vice versa, plug a light in to work on the light circuit.

I also generally put in way more than the code minimum receptacles. I like starting by the door with one, this way the homeowner can actually plug in a vacuum cleaner without moving furniture!:D
 
having to go down into the basement in the dark, without tripping over furniture along the way, finding where the flashlight was left, by me, the kid, is an experience I would not want a customer to go through
Click to expand...

If the breaker to a bedroom trips the family members are normally familiar with their own room and this will not cause a problem. The lights to hallways and stairway will still be on
Click to expand...

if someone plugs in a faulty item and trips the breaker, at least the lights will still work so they can safely make their way to the panel.
Click to expand...

Its certainly a free country but I think y'all need to find something else to obsess about :angel: How often do breakers trip? Whats going to happen, a scene out of "the naked gun" where the lights go out, guy panics and trips on something, reaches as he falls and drags the drapes down, which catch in the ceiling fan trashing the room, drapes fall on guy who gets up with drapes on him and hobbles over to the stairs which he then falls down. Freaks the cat out who jumps away knocking a lit candle over....... :roll:
 
Sounds like a Rube Goldberg cartoon!

My experiences were back when 3 to 4 fuses were powering the small houses up to the 50s. Still enough of an experience of walking in the dark to change fuses in my parent's home and those of neighbors, that has made me never make the same wiring mistakes in my own work. Nothing obsessive about it. Experience is the best teacher! Maybe why I got into electrical work...

Now that we have two 20 amp small appliance circuits, more than 60 amp services, breakers instead of fuses (with time delay rather than the cheaper quick blow Buss W series), more than 4 circuits feeding all the 120 volt loads,yes, I hardly ever see a tripped breaker anymore. The "housewife" can actually plug in the iron and vacuum while it heats up without having to know where the fuse box is.

BTW, it was against the law to sell fuses on Sunday here in Virginia until the late 60s with the repeal of most of the Blue Laws. if you blew one on Sunday and didn't have a replacement, the store couldn't sell them even though they were on the shelf and the store was open.
 
I've done production residential wiring and we never separated them. In my own work I do the same, there is no need or benefit to keeping them separated other than wasting time and money.
 
electrofelon said:
.......... I think y'all need to find something else to obsess about :angel:........
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Obsess? Who's obsessing? I made a choice 29 years ago. I don't obsess over it. Never have.

Just like when I stand in front of a soda dispenser and choose Sprite over Coke Classic. I don't sit and each lunch 'obsessing' over my choice.
 
electrofelon said:
I obsess over such choices often. For me its typically at the ice cream case. Haagen Daz strawberry or mint chip. Its not easy. Then there is second guessing if I made the right choice while eating it.
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But do you still obsess over the choice you made between the two back when Carter was in the Oval office?
 
electrofelon said:
The code says very little on how to circuit general lights and receptacles so there are many options. I have changed the way I typically do things several times over the years. In the beginning, I would do lights and plugs separately, and would even do plugs on #12 often. More recently, but before AFCI's I would do lights and plugs together but run quite a few more circuits than the minimum code calculation the square footage would require. Now I am closer to code minimum thanks to AFCI's. I like to keep things logically circuited, for intuitiveness and easier labeling. Ill generally see what the code minimum number of circuits is, see how the house breaks up, and usually up the number by a few. I have less of an issue with being closer to code minimum as I used to. I seem to be less and less open to "what ifs" and code minimum is fine 99.2% of the time if you talk to the client about things like possible air conditioners. Space heaters can certainly be an issue but a new or remodeled house generally has an appropriate heating system so I dont see the need to crazy with that what if.
Click to expand...

"Lights and plugs"? Are you a DIYer? :huh:
 
peter d said:
With a bid price, it most assuredly is a waste of money. I don't have to explain it, it's self evident to everyone who has to work competitively.
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You probably can't explain it because you've probably actually never compared the two side-by-side.
 
Nathan68 said:
Since i just returned to residential electrical trade, I'd like a few pointers on grouping lighting and outlets circuits in new construction. I think I tend to over engineer, i.e. dedicating a circuit for bath fan/light/heater. Is there a general expectation for number of lights or ceiling fan/lights or outlets permissible on a single circuit? I cannot count the number of times I've had to add Outlet circuits in even newer homes because the contractor, even though within code, skimped on out let circuits. Thanks in advance for comments.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

A bathroom heater fan will require its own individual branch circuit per mfg instructions; 110.3(B). If the fan is unknown when you are roughing in, I'd pull a piece of ENT to the switchbox so if you need 5 conductors for a 4 function fan, you can pull them in easily.*

The way I do it is everything that needs its own circuit, like oven, dryer, water heater, HVAC, etc. get its, then group the rest as logically as possible. Holiday lighting may require AFCI and GFCI breakers if you have Sill-Lites or the like in bedrooms and garage windows.

Running a spare 12/3 and 14/3 to a j-box in the attic and crawlspace each gives you 8 more 15/20A circuits. 4 2 gang jboxes and 40' of wire is very cheap and great insurance for future use, especially if the panel will be hard to get at. Those length wires are basically scraps anyway. *One of these can go to the bathroom fan if it's a heated type that needs its own circuit. You may also want to stub down from the panel a 1" and 1.25-1.5" ENT for future use needing larger wires, like a spa, workshop, subpanel, or genset. All of that may take an hour labor and cost $40 in materials, which will more than pay for itself if anything is added in the future, just on reduced labor not having to fish wires in the panel.

As of now, VA is still on the 2012 IRC for residential electrical, so AFCI on bedroom outlets only. If there are substantial changes in the 2015 re: AFCI req's, grouping outlets and receptacles tighter will yield a less expensive install, but for now, another $4-9 breaker isnt a budget buster.

Running a chase or two for comm wires from attic to basement is also a good idea. Much cheaper to install a few sticks of conduit than to tear up finished walls later to fish them in.

Lastly, certain circuits seem to get overloaded more quickly than others when additions are made. The lighting circuit for the entry area is one, say the customer wants outdoor driveway lights or a nice chandelier with 25 40W bulbs, it wont happen w/o a new circuit if the original is loaded to bear.

The spare circuits allow me to load more on the working circuits and use less of them since I know I can easily wire up anything the customer would want in the future.
 
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