Afci,afci/GFCI and GFCI nuisance tripping

[gptaylor1976]

Ok, I know we are not alone in this issue so here goes. Just finished a remodel and we're required to change the breakers to afci,afci/GFCI and GFCI breakers depending on their location. We tested the place out and everything was holding and working as it should. Now we have had 1 afci/GFCI (kitchen and refrigerator circuit), the wall oven (GFCI), and and afci lighting circuit trio randomly. There are a number of( 46 total)led wafers, 18 dimmer (yes led rated), and all of the electronics associated with the two appliances. We do not backstab so all terminals are screwed down. I have read about the electronics sending out "noise" on the wires and can totally understand that. My question is, and I am not completely informed on how they work, if we were to install a whole house surge suppressor, would that absorb the "noise" being sent back on the neutral? I am no electronics expert, but am willing to bet that this issue has more to do with the neutrals than the hot side of the circuits.

 

[tom baker]

Install a GFCI in place of the AFCI. If it does not trip then it’s a AFCI issue. An AFCI Will trip from a neutral to ground short.
Did you completely rewire or use existing wiring?

 

[gptaylor1976]

Install a GFCI in place of the AFCI. If it does not trip then it’s a AFCI issue. An AFCI Will trip from a neutral to ground short.
Did you completely rewire or use existing wiring?

That is what we have done. But it is not only the afci tripping, it is the GFCI one tripping also. That's what is the strange part. No, we did not completely re wire the house. We have also had these same issue on our new builds.

 

[tom baker]

GFCIs trip for a reason. You can divide the circuit in half to isolate to a section.
AFCI issues are harder. It can be a vacuum cleaner, firmware or ?
There are others with far more experience who will be able to offer suggestions.

 

[ptonsparky]

Do the breakers have the onboard diagnostics?

 

[gptaylor1976]

The one circuit has 2 USB outlet/charger devices, 2 short lengths of plug mold and he refer. All have been checked out and are ok. The wall oven, by itself, light circuit just led lights and fine. My boss did pull things apart, checked this and that, and still had the random trips. Sometimes they would trip, with nothing on I will say, in 5 minutes,other times not for an hour.

 

[jim dungar]

The one circuit has 2 USB outlet/charger devices, 2 short lengths of plug mold and he refer. All have been checked out and are ok. The wall oven, by itself, light circuit just led lights and fine. My boss did pull things apart, checked this and that, and still had the random trips. Sometimes they would trip, with nothing on I will say, in 5 minutes,other times not for an hour.

I would try removing the USB outlets and see if the other devices stay on.
Nothing specific, I just don't like the quality of most USB charging receptacles.

 

[Jraef]

I would try removing the USB outlets and see if the other devices stay on.
Nothing specific, I just don't like the quality of most USB charging receptacles.

Yeah, I would start there too. There are some relatively lax standards on how the USB power supplies can be made, so some of them are absolute garbage. Even if they are UL listed, UL is only really concerned about whether they might start a fire, not how much noise they create or whether they cause nuisance tripping of electronic breakers.

Common mode noise (electrical noise referenced to ground) is not a “surge”, so a surge suppressor is not going to help. Double check ALL of your ground paths. NEC grounding rules are all about safety, but modern electronics require rigorous attention to grounding details that might satisfy the NEC but are going to contribute to this sort of problem. Make sure that the only place where grounds on different circuits are common is in the ground bus of the panel.

 

[ptonsparky]

Typically residential EGs would all be tied together in each common jbox. Not just at the SE bars.