AFCI Bathrooms

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Possibly because the sort of things regularly plugged in in bathrooms (e.g. hair dryers) tend to produce unacceptable false trip levels in AFCIs at the time the rule was last rewritten.
 
brother said:
I use to think that almost all 120v circuits needed afci in dwellings but I see the bathrooms are exempt. What was the reason that afci was not required in bathrooms but everywhere else?? seems like they wanted to do the whole house to me.
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No idea why they left some circuits off the list in the 2014 code, but it appears they have expanded it again for the 2017. The following is from a report on the "first draft" of the 2017 NEC.
210.12(A) - Whole-House AFCI Protection
The continual expansion for arc-fault circuit interrupter (AFCI) protection appears to be complete with the proposed revisions to 210.12(A).
Requires AFCI protection for all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling units.
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brother said:
I use to think that almost all 120v circuits needed afci in dwellings but I see the bathrooms are exempt. What was the reason that afci was not required in bathrooms but everywhere else?? seems like they wanted to do the whole house to me.
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You were correct before and you're still correct. Almost all 120v circuits need afci in dwellings.
 
Serious answer:

Before 2008 the requirements were afci in bedrooms. Places you'd be asleep in the event of an arc-fault situation. Makes sense.

Then they realized that people often sleep in the living room, den, or other similar areas. OK...still makes sense.

Then the realization that kitchens were often directly attached to dining rooms and living rooms with no walls between.

The bathroom is the last place that is absolutely closed off from the rest of the house with walls and doors and you are very highly unlikely to be sleeping in there. Unless you have a drinking or drug problem.

But don't worry...Bathrooms will need AFCI soon enough. Then it will be AFCI and dual-function breakers galore! Think of the markup on all the new circuits you sell. It will be glorious. We'll all get rich.
 
jaylectricity said:
Serious answer:

Before 2008 the requirements were afci in bedrooms. Places you'd be asleep in the event of an arc-fault situation. Makes sense.

Then they realized that people often sleep in the living room, den, or other similar areas. OK...still makes sense.

Then the realization that kitchens were often directly attached to dining rooms and living rooms with no walls between.

The bathroom is the last place that is absolutely closed off from the rest of the house with walls and doors and you are very highly unlikely to be sleeping in there. Unless you have a drinking or drug problem.

But don't worry...Bathrooms will need AFCI soon enough. Then it will be AFCI and dual-function breakers galore! Think of the markup on all the new circuits you sell. It will be glorious. We'll all get rich.
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In a perfect world. Unfortunately when harry the home owner bids and finds the sparkie's price is 8 times the handyman special... its safe to guess who gets the job.
 
Yeah, it would be nice if it was an AFCI main because for the most part it would never trip (according to the manufacturer).

I suppose troubleshooting would involve turning off breakers one by one until the main held. But arc-faults don't tend to be a constant tripper.

For instance, today I livened up a circuit that tripped immediately. I went to the area of the circuit and turned off all the switches. Found the switch that was the problem.

Dead shorts are easy to find. Arc-faults are not that easy to find.
 
jaylectricity said:
Yeah, it would be nice if it was an AFCI main because for the most part it would never trip (according to the manufacturer).

I suppose troubleshooting would involve turning off breakers one by one until the main held. But arc-faults don't tend to be a constant tripper.

For instance, today I livened up a circuit that tripped immediately. I went to the area of the circuit and turned off all the switches. Found the switch that was the problem.

Dead shorts are easy to find. Arc-faults are not that easy to find.
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Especially when coming from brand new UL listed appliances.
 
I certainly hope that resistance to AFCI's gains momentum in the next few years so that more states will amend the AFCI rules out of the NEC.
 
jaylectricity said:
Serious answer:

But don't worry...Bathrooms will need AFCI soon enough. Then it will be AFCI and dual-function breakers galore! Think of the markup on all the new circuits you sell. It will be glorious. We'll all get rich.
Click to expand...

Going to have to start using panelboards versus loadcenters in dwelling units. No room left to run the wire with all these AFCI breakers now. Would be nice if they could shrink them down a bit.

It is ridiculously tight in the Square D QO panels as it is.

---Aaron
 
abrace said:
Going to have to start using panelboards versus loadcenters in dwelling units. No room left to run the wire with all these AFCI breakers now. Would be nice if they could shrink them down a bit.

It is ridiculously tight in the Square D QO panels as it is.

---Aaron
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Square D is the worst. At least Murray/Siemens and Eaton/Cutler-Hammer are the same sized breakers as the non-afci type. Just a matter of an extra pigtail for the neutral.
 
jaylectricity said:
Square D is the worst. At least Murray/Siemens and Eaton/Cutler-Hammer are the same sized breakers as the non-afci type. Just a matter of an extra pigtail for the neutral.
Click to expand...

I have been growing quite fond of Siemens panels. Murray, well, one pitted aluminum bus was all I needed there.

---Aaron
 
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