AFCI Breaker tripping with loads

[tommydh]

I received a call from a friend with the following issue:
Breaker tripped will not reset.
I trace what I think to be the issue to a ground wire resting on a bare section of the Hot where wire was stabbed in. I remedy that issue turn breaker on and it holds, I operate 1 set of 3 ways good, Switch 2 also good plug tester shoes all good, plug in a surge protector and turn on trip. Operate the switches for Ceiling fan/ light trip. 3 way between floors trips. I'm thinking theres a neutral issue in one of the switch boxes containing different circuits.
Any other suggestions or am I on right path.
Residential is not my forte I am an Industrial and commercial guy.

 

[ptonsparky]

Discard the surge strip. It’s the way cheap ones are built and/or it self sacrificed on a surge at some time.

Shared neutrals are an issue but would have been a problem since day one. Is this a recent problem?

 

[tommydh]

It started the other day. I started with every thing off on that circuit , anything other than a night light plugged in would trip. As I posted I thought it was the bare ground contacting the hot which I took care of. I'm thinking I did something with a neutral in the spots I took apart to isolate where the original fault was. When I tried isolating the circuit again it still ripped on the half that was on, hence my thinking of neutral issues. I was thinking of trying a normal breaker to verify if its a dead short or if its something the AFCI is sensing. The surge protector they use for the reclining sofa is actually a really nice one that they probably were talked into buying from the store they purchased the furniture from. I know that because its same type Magnolia pushes with there home theater stuff. I do a lot of Best Buy Service work.

 

[Beaches EE]

A friend had a similar issue and after his electrician removed a power strip and cleaned up the wiring in a ceiling fan canopy the problem appeared to be corrected. It recurred some days later and the AFCI breaker was ultimately replaced with a newer version.

 

[infinity]

It started the other day. I started with every thing off on that circuit , anything other than a night light plugged in would trip. As I posted I thought it was the bare ground contacting the hot which I took care of. I'm thinking I did something with a neutral in the spots I took apart to isolate where the original fault was. When I tried isolating the circuit again it still ripped on the half that was on, hence my thinking of neutral issues. I was thinking of trying a normal breaker to verify if its a dead short or if its something the AFCI is sensing. The surge protector they use for the reclining sofa is actually a really nice one that they probably were talked into buying from the store they purchased the furniture from. I know that because its same type Magnolia pushes with there home theater stuff. I do a lot of Best Buy Service work.

A normal CB will tell if it's tripping due to an overload, a short circuit, or a ground fault. Once you've eliminated those possibilities then you would need to look for the neutral issue. I would also try a new AFCI breaker.

 

[kwired]

It started the other day. I started with every thing off on that circuit , anything other than a night light plugged in would trip. As I posted I thought it was the bare ground contacting the hot which I took care of. I'm thinking I did something with a neutral in the spots I took apart to isolate where the original fault was. When I tried isolating the circuit again it still ripped on the half that was on, hence my thinking of neutral issues. I was thinking of trying a normal breaker to verify if its a dead short or if its something the AFCI is sensing. The surge protector they use for the reclining sofa is actually a really nice one that they probably were talked into buying from the store they purchased the furniture from. I know that because its same type Magnolia pushes with there home theater stuff. I do a lot of Best Buy Service work.

Most motorized recliners have no need for a surge protector, especially those that are nothing more than a PSC type motor and simple SPDT control switch for electrical components. If anything the surge protector may help with false trips of an AFCI from inductive kickback when you stop that motor.

Is the AFCI new enough version it can tell you which onboard feature caused the trip?

 

[hbiss]

The surge protector they use for the reclining sofa is actually a really nice one that they probably were talked into buying from the store they purchased the furniture from. I know that because its same type Magnolia pushes with there home theater stuff. I do a lot of Best Buy Service work.

You can't use many surge protection devices on a circuit that has GFI protection which, likely the AFCI breaker also provides. Reason being is that the surge device will clamp the normal power line transients and spikes to ground. That's OK except the GFI sees the current to ground and trips.

There are some surge protectors that only have a single MOV from hot to neutral so they won't cause that problem but they are the cheaper ones. Good ones with better protection will have an MOV from hot to ground and neutral to ground.

Keep this in mind when you do your service work. With the expansion of GFIs and AFCIs I can see this becoming a problem to the uninformed.

-Hal

 

[tommydh]

Most motorized recliners have no need for a surge protector, especially those that are nothing more than a PSC type motor and simple SPDT control switch for electrical components. If anything the surge protector may help with false trips of an AFCI from inductive kickback when you stop that motor.

Is the AFCI new enough version it can tell you which onboard feature caused the trip?

I think they used the Surge Protector mainly to plug both Wall Warts (power supply) in.
It did have indicator lights but neither would be lit, b esides when I reset they would light then go off.

 

[tommydh]

The problem would occur with any load I tried other than a roomba charger. The surge protector was simply one thing that caused trip. With all bulbs removed from lights flipping switch did it also.

 

[tommydh]

You can't use many surge protection devices on a circuit that has GFI protection which, likely the AFCI breaker also provides. Reason being is that the surge device will clamp the normal power line transients and spikes to ground. That's OK except the GFI sees the current to ground and trips.

There are some surge protectors that only have a single MOV from hot to neutral so they won't cause that problem but they are the cheaper ones. Good ones with better protection will have an MOV from hot to ground and neutral to ground.

Keep this in mind when you do your service work. With the expansion of GFIs and AFCIs I can see this becoming a problem to the uninformed.

-Hal

I very rarely do any Res. service this was for a friend of friend.

 

[ptonsparky]

Get your amp clamp out and use it.

 

[kwired]

I think they used the Surge Protector mainly to plug both Wall Warts (power supply) in.
It did have indicator lights but neither would be lit, b esides when I reset they would light then go off.

What did they indicate? Some may just be power on indicator, others may be status indicator of the protection, some may tell you if you are missing EGC or have reverse polarity on hot/neutral

 

[jleon622]

you would have look up the manual for the specific breaker you have, to see how to get the information on the last trip.

 

[synchro]

If there's another AFCI breaker in the panel that you can swap with, that might help isolate the problem to either the breaker itself or the particular circuit that you're dealing with. If there's not another suitable AFCI in the panel then put in a new one as was mentioned above. Your comment about the AFCI tripping when all bulbs were removed and the switch was flipped increases my suspicion that the breaker itself may be faulty.