AFCI Breakers in service replacement

[dm9289]

While replacing an old service is it now necessary with the new 2008 code to use AFCI breakers on existing bedroom, hallway, etc. circuits. This seems like it would add alot of cost to upgrades.Or does this just apply to new work.

 

[ptonsparky]

Depends on your local rules. We do not have to in Nebraska. Your area may be different. Won't hurt anything if you do and it is more money in your pocket but be prepared to trouble shoot.

 

[infinity]

We don't have too here either. Requiring AFCI's for that could create problems with MWBC's and make upgrades cost prohibitive to the consumer. Now instead of them replacing that old dangerous service they would just leave the hazard in place.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

While replacing an old service is it now necessary with the new 2008 code to use AFCI breakers on existing bedroom, hallway, etc. circuits. This seems like it would add alot of cost to upgrades.Or does this just apply to new work.

Doesn't apply here either to service change. One jurisdiction tried to enforce it but one EC contested it and the state made a ruling in favor of the EC.

 

[CopperTone]

only on anything new in massachusetts. new house, addition, or any new circuit for anything in required areas defined in 2008 code.

Not required for service change/upgrades (I haven't come across any towns or cities requiring it anyway - there probably is some dork out there requiring it - there are 351 AHJ's in massachusetts)

 

[M. D.]

only on anything new in massachusetts. new house, addition, or any new circuit for anything in required areas defined in 2008 code.

Not required for service change/upgrades (I haven't come across any towns or cities requiring it anyway - there probably is some dork out there requiring it - there are 351 AHJ's in massachusetts)

I think there is only one AHJ ,..I always thought it was the Board of Fire Prevention Regulations,..

It had been required in mass but they dropped it

This is what once was but is no longer

(C) Overcurrent Device Replacements. Where panelboards are replaced that contain one or
more circuits requiring AFCI protection by this or other sections of the Code, AFCI protection shall be provided for such circuits.
Exception: For panel board replacements made before January 1, 2005, AFCI protection shall not be required on existing circuit branches.

 

[SEO]

Not required here either.

 

[wirenut2008]

only on anything new in massachusetts. new house, addition, or any new circuit for anything in required areas defined in 2008 code.

Not required for service change/upgrades (I haven't come across any towns or cities requiring it anyway - there probably is some dork out there requiring it - there are 351 AHJ's in massachusetts)

I have done alot of remodels and service changes and have never been required to do this. Only in new construction.

 

[chris500]

I was just informed that in one of the burbs here we are now going to be required to install AFCIs during a service upgrade.

The city also has made it clear that if they are ever able to adopt the new code, it will apply to changeouts.

 

[izak]

arkansas says only if you open walls will you need to go AFCI

it has been explained to me that in a remodel, or adding a recep you will need to but not on a simple panel replacement

 

[JohnJ0906]

I was just informed that in one of the burbs here we are now going to be required to install AFCIs during a service upgrade.

The city also has made it clear that if they are ever able to adopt the new code, it will apply to changeouts.

What are you expected to do with MWBCs?

AFAIK, there aren't any 2-pole AFCIs (combination type) on the market.

 

[chris500]

What are you expected to do with MWBCs?

AFAIK, there aren't any 2-pole AFCIs (combination type) on the market.

Combination type being acfi/gfci?

My understanding is that there are, in fact, 2 poles now available.

Pricing on the other hand is quite profitable for the manufacturers.

I was quoted $111.69 for either a 2p15 or a 2p20 Siemens from a supply house the other day. No 2p20s in stock, but like everything else, they can have it in a day or so.

I really believe that in the theoretical world these kinds of decisions will help prevent fires, and thus save lives. In the real world, however, it is going to further drive a wedge between the contractors who will do things up to code, and correct, and the contractors who will come in and do a quick job without inspections, and leave who knows what kind of mishaps behind.

Maybe not so much in higher end areas, but in lower income areas it will force people to either not do the electrical work, or have someone do it cheaper(ie cut out the costs like arc fault breakers.)

 

[al hildenbrand]

Combination type being acfi/gfci?

No. Combination AFCI are the new "second generation" AFCI that has been required by the 2005 NEC as of Jan. 1, 2008. This AFCI starts monitoring at current levels of 5.0 Amps, unlike the first generation, the branch feeder AFCI that started monitoring at current levels in excess of 50.0 Amps.

 

[lectricman]

What if you have to relocate the panel because the existing panel location dosn't meet code