AFCI confusion 210.12 dwelling

[dm9289]

When installing a new circuit instead of using a AFCI breaker can you use an AFCI receptacle at the first outlet while using NM as the feed.

I’m having a little trouble with this maybe I’m letting the conduit section confuse me

 

[augie47]

Unless there has been a change in Codes later that '17, a metallic wiring method is required if you are supplying an AFCI receptacle from a standard breaker on a new circuit.

 

[dm9289]

Unless there has been a change in Codes later that '17, a metallic wiring method is required if you are supplying an AFCI receptacle from a standard breaker on a new circuit.

In 210.12A 1-2-3 I’m confused by listed branch feeder type AFCI is that some form of breaker in a device box.

 

[roger]

In 210.12A 1-2-3 I’m confused by listed branch feeder type AFCI is that some form of breaker in a device box.

It can be either a breaker or a device, it simply needs to be listed and used/installed per it's instructions and codes

 

[don_resqcapt19]

In 210.12A 1-2-3 I’m confused by listed branch feeder type AFCI is that some form of breaker in a device box.

That was the original AFCI before the combination type was required.

 

[dm9289]

That was the original AFCI before the combination type was required.

Where I’m getting confused in my 2017 NEC videos Mike says you cannot. I’m on 2017 NEC. But you are saying at first receptacle outlet one could use a AFCI receptacle to meet this requirement

 

[augie47]

Method #2 requires an "old style" (non-combination) AFCI device ahead of the receptacle

 

[augie47]

At this time there are no listed devices to meet this option

 

[dm9289]

Method #2 requires an "old style" (non-combination) AFCI device ahead of the receptacle
View attachment 2568565

The more I read the code section the more unclear this gets.

 

[augie47]

not sure what else to provide you other than Mike's illustrations above.

If you are wanting to provide AFCI protection on a new circuit using an AFCI receptacle and romex the only acceptable method presently is the used of an old stye AFCI breaker as the supply.
There are options if you use conduit or MC as opposed to NM

 

[curt swartz]

I have never understood why the Branch Circuit Feeder AFCI device is an option. Why would you want to buy 2 AFCI devices (breaker and receptacle) instead of 1.

 

[dm9289]

not sure what else to provide you other than Mike's illustrations above.

If you are wanting to provide AFCI protection on a new circuit using an AFCI receptacle and romex the only acceptable method presently is the used of an old stye AFCI breaker as the supply.
There are options if you use conduit or MC as opposed to NM

210.12A(4) when I read it and the 4 conditions seem to say that a device would be ok. Again I could be reading this incorrectly

 

[dm9289]

I have never understood why the Branch Circuit Feeder AFCI device is an option. Why would you want to buy 2 AFCI devices (breaker and receptacle) instead of 1.

I think the device can act as both 210.12A4. I may be reading it wrong

 

[curt swartz]

I think the device can act as both 210.12A4. I may be reading it wrong

The breaker and AFCI device are required to be listed work together.

 

[augie47]

The breaker and AFCI device are required to be listed work together.

That is the key !!! Some of the options listed are in place to address a future situation where the breaker and receptacle are listed to work together, As of now I don't think there are any on the market.
When Leviton introduced their panel I thought they might have a combination listing.

 

[dm9289]

That is the key !!! Some of the options listed are in place to address a future situation where the breaker and receptacle are listed to work together, As of now I don't think there are any on the market.
When Leviton introduced their panel I thought they might have a combination listing.

Leviton 15 Amp 125-Volt Duplex Self-Test SmartlockPro Tamper Resistant AFCI/GFCI Dual Function Outlet, White R92-AGTR1-0KW - The Home Depot

Today more than ever homes are equipped with important electrical safety devices to help protect people and property. Most prominent are the GFCI Receptacle, which helps protect people from shock or electrocution

www.homedepot.com

I thought this device would be ok in my small mind at the first receptacle

 

[augie47]

Not on an added circuit using Romex as there is no listed combination device to supply it

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I think the device can act as both 210.12A4. I may be reading it wrong

They are different and there is no product on the market that would let you comply with (A)(4)(d).

Not sure you can even buy the original branch circuit/feeder AFCI breaker...the last time that type of AFCI breaker was permitted to be used to comply with 210.12 was the 2002 code.

There are a number of things going on with this, one of which is the fight between breaker manufacturers and device manufactures with the breaker manufacturers trying to throw as many roadblocks as possible to prevent the use of AFCI devices.

 

[mtnelect]

In my opinion, using GFCI receptacles for protection of downstream outlets is a design failure. This has become a common service call for me.
The customer is complaining a loss of power in several outlets and can't restore power. The GFCI receptacles are always hidden behind furniture, and no labels found on outlets.

 

[LarryFine]

In my opinion, using GFCI receptacles for protection of downstream outlets is a design failure. This has become a common service call for me.
The customer is complaining a loss of power in several outlets and can't restore power. The GFCI receptacles are always hidden behind furniture, and no labels found on outlets.

I once had such a call. I found three GFCIs in line on one circuit, all feed-through-wired.