AFCI, dormitory

[mhayes]

Which outlets in a college dormitory need to be on an AFCI protected circuit? The student bedrooms are just bedrooms. All bathrooms and (1) kitchen are in common spaces. Thanks in advance

 

[Hendrix]

Which outlets in a college dormitory need to be on an AFCI protected circuit? The student bedrooms are just bedrooms. All bathrooms and (1) kitchen are in common spaces. Thanks in advance

I don't think that a dorm would be reguarded as a dwelling unit.

 

[Hendrix]

I don't think that a dorm would be reguarded as a dwelling unit.

I mean regarded.

 

[Smart $]

I don't think that a dorm would be reguarded as a dwelling unit.

Perhaps not by the individual rooms, but the entire structure or a subdivision thereof may meet the defintion of a dwelling unit.

 

[bobsherwood]

Last summer several dorms were remodeled here and received a bunch of AFCI's. I don't know the ruling but, I'll look into it. If I find something, I'll let ya know.

 

[Hendrix]

Perhaps not by the individual rooms, but the entire structure or a subdivision thereof may meet the defintion of a dwelling unit.

Then, another question would be about the use of TR receptacles.

 

[raider1]

IMHO a dormitory does not meet the definition of a dwelling unit if the set up is multiple sleeping rooms with separate bathing and cooking facilities. I think the 210.60 (2008) covers receptacles in dormitories. I believe that a college dormitory would be treated the same as a hotel/ motel guestroom without permanent provisions for cooking within the guestroom.

Chris

 

[Hendrix]

IMHO a dormitory does not meet the definition of a dwelling unit if the set up is multiple sleeping rooms with separate bathing and cooking facilities. I think the 210.60 (2008) covers receptacles in dormitories. I believe that a college dormitory would be treated the same as a hotel/ motel guestroom without permanent provisions for cooking within the guestroom.

Chris

I am inclined to agree :smile:

 

[Smart $]

IMHO a dormitory does not meet the definition of a dwelling unit if the set up is multiple sleeping rooms with separate bathing and cooking facilities. I think the 210.60 (2008) covers receptacles in dormitories. I believe that a college dormitory would be treated the same as a hotel/ motel guestroom without permanent provisions for cooking within the guestroom.

Chris

First off, 210.60 is in Part III Required Outlets. The AFCI requirement is under Part I General Provisions. How does the latter counter the former?

The only issue in question is whether the rooms are part of a dwelling unit. Sanitary, cooking, and living areas are commonly separate from sleeping quarters. What about when say each 4 dorm rooms in a building have a common kitchen, living , and bath facilities? Is this all that different from a 4 bedroom apartment that it would not be considered a dwelling unit?

 

[raider1]

First off, 210.60 is in Part III Required Outlets. The AFCI requirement is under Part I General Provisions. How does the latter counter the former?

I never said that 210.60 counters 210.12. But what it does do is shows that dormitories and guest suites in hotels/motels are similar.

The only issue in question is whether the rooms are part of a dwelling unit. Sanitary, cooking, and living areas are commonly separate from sleeping quarters. What about when say each 4 dorm rooms in a building have a common kitchen, living , and bath facilities? Is this all that different from a 4 bedroom apartment that it would not be considered a dwelling unit?

IMHO, the key to whether or not a dorm is a dwelling unit is in the definition of dwelling unit.

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation.

The definition says a single unit providing permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. IMHO a dorm with multiple sleeping rooms and a common kitchen and bathroom would not be a single unit. The difference between a dorm and a multi bedroom apartment would be that in a dorm each sleeping room has a separate individual that rents that room and shares the bathroom and kitchen with other residents.

Chris

 

[iwire]

The definition says a single unit providing permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. IMHO a dorm with multiple sleeping rooms and a common kitchen and bathroom would not be a single unit.

I agree, to read it smart's way would mean an entire hospital is a dwelling uit.

 

[raider1]

I agree, to read it smart's way would mean an entire hospital is a dwelling uit.

Correct, same with a hotel or motel that would have a kitchen and restaurant.

Chris

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The definition says a single unit providing permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. IMHO a dorm with multiple sleeping rooms and a common kitchen and bathroom would not be a single unit. The difference between a dorm and a multi bedroom apartment would be that in a dorm each sleeping room has a separate individual that rents that room and shares the bathroom and kitchen with other residents.

Chris

In many of the new dorms there are a number of one or two occupant sleeping rooms, a bathroom or two and a living/kitchen area. There is only one door to the main corridor just like an apartment building would have. If the kitchen area has a cook top, or a built-in microwave, I don't think there is any question that the unit is a dwelling unit per the NEC rules. Now if the microwave is a plug in unit and just sits on the countertop, I am not so sure.

 

[Smart $]

In many of the new dorms there are a number of one or two occupant sleeping rooms, a bathroom or two and a living/kitchen area. There is only one door to the main corridor just like an apartment building would have. If the kitchen area has a cook top, or a built-in microwave, I don't think there is any question that the unit is a dwelling unit per the NEC rules. Now if the microwave is a plug in unit and just sits on the countertop, I am not so sure.

Similar to what I was describing earlier...

Sanitary, cooking, and living areas are commonly separate from sleeping quarters. What about when say each 4 dorm rooms in a building have a common kitchen, living , and bath facilities? Is this all that different from a 4 bedroom apartment that it would not be considered a dwelling unit?

Had these type of dorms when I went to college (so not so modern :grin

Of course we also had the more traditional dorms with all roomies sharing two bathrooms on each floor and on the first floor one fully-equipped kitchen and a large rec' room.

 

[Smart $]

I never said that 210.60 counters 210.12. But what it does do is shows that dormitories and guest suites in hotels/motels are similar.

True, they are similar. But it is still taking an issue out of context and assuming it belongs somewhere where it is not in context.

"Sleeping rooms in dormitories" was just added in the 2008 cycle to 210.60. So, is it an oversight it was not added to 210.18"

IMHO, the key to whether or not a dorm is a dwelling unit is in the definition of dwelling unit.



The definition says a single unit providing permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. IMHO a dorm with multiple sleeping rooms and a common kitchen and bathroom would not be a single unit. The difference between a dorm and a multi bedroom apartment would be that in a dorm each sleeping room has a separate individual that rents that room and shares the bathroom and kitchen with other residents.

Chris

Is not a building a single unit? Can a building contain only one dwelling unit? Granted it can contain more than one, but the question is can it contain only one.

...and a major difference between a dorm and a hotel or hospital is the "independent living facilities" part of the definition. I certainly know of no hospital or hotel where one can bring in their own groceries and use the cooking facilities to make their own meal, and even if they could, it would not be a regular feature to most anyone's stay there... and hospitals surely can't qualify under the independent living aspect

 

[iMuse97]

Similar to what I was describing earlier...

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Had these type of dorms when I went to college (so not so modern :grin

Of course we also had the more traditional dorms with all roomies sharing two bathrooms on each floor and on the first floor one fully-equipped kitchen and a large rec' room.

we didn't even have a fully equipped kitchen... what's that about? :roll:

 

[ItsHot]

dwelling?

dwelling?

Dwelling.. a shelter in which people live. I have never understood the whole "provisions fo cooking " thing!!

 

[iMuse97]

Dwelling.. a shelter in which people live. I have never understood the whole "provisions fo cooking " thing!!

It must be assumed, by the NEC no less, that those who eat food raw are not dwelling in a place but only staying there temporarily. Or that those who don't eat, do not dwell, either.

 

[Smart $]

we didn't even have a fully equipped kitchen... what's that about? :roll:

You gotta wash the dishes :grin:

 

[raider1]

Is not a building a single unit? Can a building contain only one dwelling unit? Granted it can contain more than one, but the question is can it contain only one.

A building consisting solely of one dwelling unit is a single family dwelling.

Again my response was to the original question...

The student bedrooms are just bedrooms. All bathrooms and (1) kitchen are in common spaces.

IMHO with what the original poster stated would not be a dwelling unit.

In many of the new dorms there are a number of one or two occupant sleeping rooms, a bathroom or two and a living/kitchen area. There is only one door to the main corridor just like an apartment building would have. If the kitchen area has a cook top, or a built-in microwave, I don't think there is any question that the unit is a dwelling unit per the NEC rules.

And I would agree that there could very well be designs where a dorm may very well meet the definition of a dwelling unit.

Chris