Afci/Gfci Receptacles

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Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Retired Electrical Contractor
I feel out of the loop since I don't work the field much anymore. How long have these afci/gfci receptacles been available? I picked one up at my supplier yesterday. Apparently, they just got them in.

A lot of people around here didn't know they were available so for those who don't know--- P&S has them available.
 
Some suppliers are not interested in Dual Function outlets, since they can't offer volume pricing. Others just started carrying Leviton, which big box stores had some years earlier, and continue to undercut everyone else on volume.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I think we will start using them.
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The Leviton dual function receptacle has been available the longest, followed by P&S, and Hubble.

Here's one for you. . . they work perfectly without a connection to an EGC. They have to for replacement of an existing nongrounded
two prong receptacle. I verified this with Leviton and P&S tech support.
 
al hildenbrand said:
The Leviton dual function receptacle has been available the longest, followed by P&S, and Hubble.

Here's one for you. . . they work perfectly without a connection to an EGC. They have to for replacement of an existing nongrounded
two prong receptacle. I verified this with Leviton and P&S tech support.
Click to expand...

Why is that surprising? Neither AFCI or GFCI depend on an EGC to function. We've used the GFCI receptacles for years as replacements for two prong receptacles. They just added the AFCI to them. (or did they? could just be labeling:angel:)
 
Little Bill said:
Why is that surprising? Neither AFCI or GFCI depend on an EGC to function.
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And the use of a GFCI receptacles installed with no connection to an EGC is supported in the NEC with 406.4(D)(2)(b). But just try to find something as explicit for an AFCI receptacle. . . either in the NEC or in the manufacturer's installation instructions.

If you had an inspector challenging installing a simple OBC AFCI receptacle in an existing receptacle outlet on a nongrounding wiring method (like two wire NM) where GFCI protection is already in place upstream, what can you show to that inspector that actually instructs that the OBC AFCI does not require an EGC connection to operate correctly?
 
al hildenbrand said:
And the use of a GFCI receptacles installed with no connection to an EGC is supported in the NEC with 406.4(D)(2)(b). But just try to find something as explicit for an AFCI receptacle. . . either in the NEC or in the manufacturer's installation instructions.

If you had an inspector challenging installing a simple OBC AFCI receptacle in an existing receptacle outlet on a nongrounding wiring method (like two wire NM) where GFCI protection is already in place upstream, what can you show to that inspector that actually instructs that the OBC AFCI does not require an EGC connection to operate correctly?
Click to expand...


Doughnuts!:p
 
al hildenbrand said:
If you had an inspector challenging installing a simple OBC AFCI receptacle in an existing receptacle outlet on a nongrounding wiring method..
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The 2017 406.4(D)(4) added "Exception No. 1:" Item #4 clarifies when Duel Function outlets are required with non-grounding, but not AFCI outlets alone.
 
ramsy said:
The 2017 406.4(D)(4) added "Exception No. 1:" Item #4 clarifies when Duel Function outlets are required with non-grounding, but not AFCI outlets alone.
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I find it fascinating that the manufacturer's of the Dual Function OBC receptacles ballyhoo the use of their product as ideal for two-wire nongrounding-type receptacles in their product flyers and pamphlets, but there is nary a word in the actual installation instructions.

In talking with both L and P&S tech support, after they verbally assured me of operability without EGC, when I asked for a document of operability of the AFCI on ungrounded methods, they hedged.
 
I prefer AFCI issues at the fuse box, since people want breaker trouble fixed by a professional.

While GFCI outlets seem well tolerated, its too tempting to solve AFCI-outlet issues with a standard plug.
 
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