AFCI/GFCI

[stankaltman]

the following questions were posted on the CREIA bb today. I have a feeling this is the place for the answers.

Can a AFCI breaker be installed on a GFCI protected branch circuit and can a GFCI be installed on a branch circuit protected by an AFCI? Theoretical question?

All smoke detectors in a new single-family home are on a 120 volt circuit. Hard wire smoke detectors are installed in the bedrooms. All "outlets" in the bedrooms must be on an AFCI protected circuit. Is the branch circuit supply power to the smoke detectors in the bedroom required to be AFCI protected as this is technically an "outlet" ?

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[ December 11, 2005, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]

 

[roger]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

Can a AFCI breaker be installed on a GFCI protected branch circuit and can a GFCI be installed on a branch circuit protected by an AFCI? Theoretical question?

Yes and Yes.

All smoke detectors in a new single-family home are on a 120 volt circuit. Hard wire smoke detectors are installed in the bedrooms. All "outlets" in the bedrooms must be on an AFCI protected circuit. Is the branch circuit supply power to the smoke detectors in the bedroom required to be AFCI protected as this is technically an "outlet" ?

Depends on what year code cycle is in effect, if it is 99 only the receptacle outlets are required to be AFCI protected, if 02 or 05 then yes the smoke detectors are required to be AFCI protected.

Now, back to the

Can a AFCI breaker be installed on a GFCI protected branch circuit

question.

NFPA 72 11.6.3(5) comes into play, if the smoke detectors are on the AFCI (after the 02 cycle) they can not lose power due to the operation of a switch or GFCI, this would not allow a GFCI upstream of the AFCI

Roger

 

[ty]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

This is why an Electrical Inspection should be performed by an Electrical Inspector on a home.

 

[pierre]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

This question is also governed by the local jurisdiction. Some local jurisdictions may have adopted the '02 or even the '05 NEC, but will have a local standard that may not permit the installation or does not require the installation of AFCI protection for bedroom circuits.
So the person involved will have to check for the local standards.

 

[peter d]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

Originally posted by ty:
This is why an Electrical Inspection should be performed by an Electrical Inspector on a home.

Why?

 

[ty]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

Originally posted by peter d:

Originally posted by ty:
This is why an Electrical Inspection should be performed by an Electrical Inspector on a home.

Why?

It is my opinion that a Home Inspector (that is not an Electrician, Electrical Inspector, or trained in the Electrical Field, with classes in the NEC) that is trying to inspect technical aspects of an Electrical System is doing a disservice to their customer.

There are many knowledgeable, well trained posters on this forum alone, who cannot always agree on CODE.

Giving a Home Inspector advice on how to inspect Electrical Systems , is not much different than giving a Homeowner advice on hall to install it, IMO.

 

[stankaltman]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

I'm don't agree with you completely. I don't think you understand that Home Inspectors are not specialists but GENERALISTS. I am ICC certified in the codes and the understanding of the homes systems (Building,Mechanical,Plumbing and oh yes ELECTRICAL. I and most Home inspectors do not pretend to be specialists or experts in anything. That said most electricians we follow into buildings do not even exhibit as much knowledge as we do. Therefore we find many their mistakes, and when we do we recommend further evaluation by a QUALIFIED, LICENSED ELECTRICIAN. QUALIFIED, LICENSED BEING KEY WORDS.
You have a right to your opinion but I would hope you will re think your position and give the credit to home inspectors that they so richly deserve. IMO

 

[jimwalker]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

Far too often HI do not know enough about wiring to give the buyer a full report on conditions of the wiring system.They see soming new or differant and they site it as a violation.They either mis things or cost the buyer even more money by calling in a real electrician.Knowing what i do about the average HI i would suggest they just start by hiring an EC to do the job and let him list what he knows are violations.You HI'S might be worth while on structures and plumbing but electrical takes years to learn.JMO

 

[stankaltman]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

That may be true in Fl. but most inspectors that are members of CREIA and ASHI are qualified. You are however entitled to your opinion. Thank you for taking the time to answer my initial post.

 

[ty]

Re: AFCI/GFCI

Originally posted by stankaltman:
I don't think you understand that Home Inspectors are not specialists but GENERALISTS.

I most certainly do.

I am ICC certified in the codes and the understanding of the homes systems (Building,Mechanical,Plumbing and oh yes ELECTRICAL.

I'm sure that you are proud of your ICC certification.
I am a member of the ICC. I know what the certification entails.

I and most Home inspectors do not pretend to be specialists or experts in anything.

Maybe you do not. The ones that I've come accross sure do. And then they fall back on the 'don't blame me, I'm not a specialist' clause.

That said most electricians we follow into buildings do not even exhibit as much knowledge as we do.

Now that's funny
More than likely, you've been looking at some shoddy Do It Yourselfer work, or Handyman work, or some unlicensed, unqualified, side-job work that the homeowner doesn't want to admit paying for.
I'm not saying that all licensed electricians are perfect. But it is more unlikely that someone who has to put their time in training, paying for continuing education classes, paying for liability insurance, paying for their annual license fees, has a good reputation, and so on, would do such bad work that an untrained, unqualified person could walk in and point them out.

Therefore we find many their mistakes, and when we do we recommend further evaluation by a QUALIFIED, LICENSED ELECTRICIAN. QUALIFIED, LICENSED BEING KEY WORDS.

If you find a mistake, why should it need further evaluation? You're certified, so your opinion should be enough to say 'this needs to be corrected', right??

[QB} You have a right to your opinion [/QB]

Thank-you.
You came to this site looking for opinions. Mine just isn't what you want to hear. You have to take the bad with hte good.

but I would hope you will re think your position and give the credit to home inspectors that they so richly deserve. IMO

Now that's funny, too
You can climb down now.
This has been my long-standing opinion, and it has not been swayed yet. I stand behind it.
I am also a home buyer. And I have had my share of home inspector dealings.

Let me ask you, when you are wrong about something, do you cover the bill???
I didn't think so.