Afci hallway 4 family

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Cletis

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I know im nitpicking but a common
Hallway in a 4 family is not really
In the dwelling unit. Afci or not ?


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Depending code cycle.. id default to say whatevers not GFCI go ahead and AFCI. I believe we are headed to dual protection.. no matter how illogical it seems.

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Cletis said:
I know im nitpicking but a common
Hallway in a 4 family is not really
In the dwelling unit. Afci or not ?


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Click to expand...

Probably depends on the AHJ to some extent.

It is not part of any of the dwelling units and its lighting and receptacle outlets would normally be on the house panel rather than any single unit panel.

It could be considered part of a residential occupancy although not part of a dwelling unit.
It would not appear to me to be one of or similar to one of the types of rooms that mandate AFCI.
A switched light in the hallway outside of each dwelling unit and controlled from within that unit (a strange idea, I admit) might make it even less clear, since a device on the circuit is inside the dwelling unit.
 
Its all on house panel lighting circuit but whats fuzzy to me is the whole 4 family a dwelling unit or is it 4 dwelling unit boxes in a large non dwelling box


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Cletis said:
Its all on house panel lighting circuit but whats fuzzy to me is the whole 4 family a dwelling unit or is it 4 dwelling unit boxes in a large non dwelling box


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I would call it four dwelling units not in a large non-dwelling box but in a large box designed to hold dwelling units. The box is residential in character where that makes a difference in the code, but is not by itself a dwelling unit. The latter is defined specifically as a separate unit which may be either standalone or part of a whole.
 
My $.02 of information.

210.12 (A) and (B) are for dwelling units, (C) is for dormitory units.

Art 100 definition of dwelling unit IMO does not include common areas on multifamily dwellings.

As others have mentioned should an outlet in the common area for some reason have a switch within a dwelling unit or on a branch circuit that also supplies outlets in a dwelling unit then you would have to AFCI protect that circuit unless the switch or outlets in the dwelling unit were not in a space covered in 210.12(A), but those spaces have become a little rare.
 
Putting aside what the code REQUIRES, an AFCI would seem to be DESIREABLE on ALL circuits. Any circuit, whether in a bedroom or a hallway or even places where AFCIs are not required, would seem to benefit. (Well not the circuit, but the people living there would be the beneficiaries.) The whole idea of the AFCI is to prevent fires from any arcing. I'm guessing there was push back from builders (for good reason....they need to keep costs down) which lead to the specific requirements in the code, permitting some areas to not be AFCI protected.

I am now seeing combined AFCI/GFCI units which would seem to be very useful, for example, in a bedroom which is currently equipped with two blade receptacles and without any ground wire. The GFCI function would permit the installation of 3 blade receptacles, and the AFCI function would provide the arc-fault fire protection.

Question: Does anyone have any experience with the combined (AFCI/GFCI) units?
 
Marty Lustig said:
Putting aside what the code REQUIRES, an AFCI would seem to be DESIREABLE on ALL circuits. Any circuit, whether in a bedroom or a hallway or even places where AFCIs are not required, would seem to benefit. (Well not the circuit, but the people living there would be the beneficiaries.) The whole idea of the AFCI is to prevent fires from any arcing. I'm guessing there was push back from builders (for good reason....they need to keep costs down) which lead to the specific requirements in the code, permitting some areas to not be AFCI protected.

I am now seeing combined AFCI/GFCI units which would seem to be very useful, for example, in a bedroom which is currently equipped with two blade receptacles and without any ground wire. The GFCI function would permit the installation of 3 blade receptacles, and the AFCI function would provide the arc-fault fire protection.

Question: Does anyone have any experience with the combined (AFCI/GFCI) units?
Click to expand...

Marty,
If you look at back threads here you will find a spirited discussion of AFCIs. Almost everyone agrees that if they did what is claimed they would be worth the cost and hassle. But there is strong pushback whether there really are many, if any, electrical fires in the US, with our 120/240 voltage, that would be caught by an AFCI in the first place. Most trips that lead to finding a real wiring problem are GFCI trips, not AFCI trips. And the rate of false trips with perfectly legal and correct wiring and UL compliant appliances is disturbing.
The dual function (combined means something else in this context) GFCI/AFCI breakers and receptacles seem not to have any worse problems than the AFCI only equivalents, which is a step in the right direction.
 
Marty Lustig said:
Putting aside what the code REQUIRES, an AFCI would seem to be DESIREABLE on ALL circuits. Any circuit, whether in a bedroom or a hallway or even places where AFCIs are not required, would seem to benefit. (Well not the circuit, but the people living there would be the beneficiaries.) The whole idea of the AFCI is to prevent fires from any arcing. I'm guessing there was push back from builders (for good reason....they need to keep costs down) which lead to the specific requirements in the code, permitting some areas to not be AFCI protected.

I am now seeing combined AFCI/GFCI units which would seem to be very useful, for example, in a bedroom which is currently equipped with two blade receptacles and without any ground wire. The GFCI function would permit the installation of 3 blade receptacles, and the AFCI function would provide the arc-fault fire protection.

Question: Does anyone have any experience with the combined (AFCI/GFCI) units?
Click to expand...


Considering nuisance tripping, its not worth it. Id rather people have at least a few receptacles that will handle that vacuum or expensive gadget.
 
Why would a common hallway in 4 apartment unit be any different than a common hallway in a 400 apartment unit? Either way you're not within the dwelling units.
 
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