AFCI maturity poll

[Guest]

Do you thing AFCI is ready for prime time?

Do you plan to only use AFCI when forced to?

Or, do you plan to implement as much AFCI as you can peddle?

Where would you personally avoid putting AFCI?

Where would you like to see AFCI required next?

What features would make AFCI a better technology?

Do you think GFCI (not AFCI) should be required in all rooms of a dwelling?

 

[bennie]

Re: AFCI maturity poll

I guess I am from the old school. I don't approve of throwing band aids at every problem.

Emphasis and research should be in the prevention of malfunctions, not in reacting to the after effects.

Any device that is not self indicating is not a safety device. It is problematic that it is in operation.

I feel this is all smoke and mirrors, with a little barnyard droppings in the equation.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: AFCI maturity poll

I think the technology of AFCI's is quite impressive. However I don't think the amount of money people have been required to spend on them vs. how many fires have been prevented justifies their installation.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: AFCI maturity poll

The biggest problem I see is that they are not fail safe and when the electronics fail the circuit remains energized. The fire loss statistics used to justify the need for AFCIs showed that 85% of the dwelling unit fires occurred in homes over 20 years old. How many of the AFCIs will be functional after 20 years? Yes, I know that the occupant is supposed to be pushing the test button monthly, but I really don't believe that very many people actually do that.
Don

 

[templdl]

Re: AFCI maturity poll

The problem is that we just aren't convinced of how effective they are.
Where are they required by the NEC to be used? For the most part in new how construction where you would like to think the wiring should be good anyway, that is less likely to fail.
Where may the AFCI be of the greatest benefit if they were to work as they are designed? If they were that great would it prevent fires in older structures where they wiring may be more prone to cause electrical fires due to insulation failures and/or arcing?
Also, if the AFCI was effective in preventing fires due to defective cords on appliances or the abuse of extension cords where line to neutral arcing often can occur one would consider them a benefit in multifamily structures where a failure in on unit can cause the loss of life for many others.
But, in order to make this an important issue the benefits of the AFCI must be real and proved, and the people be convinced of it. You know darned well that the insurance companies would put a lot of pressure of their insured for their use if they recognized an opportunity to reduce insurance losses.
Theory is one thing but convincing people that they do what they are designed to do is a big issue. I personally would like to believe that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have 5 of them in my 20 year old home. But, I couldn't tell others that they are a must unless I saw more documentation of their effectiveness in preventing electrical fires. And I don't think that it will be in new home construction applications.

 

[Guest]

Re: AFCI maturity poll

I believe that a lot of the failures in 20+ year old homes is due to back-stabbing (back-wiring) of switches and receptacles.

Regarding new construction: I believe that in the tract homes there is a lot more back-wiring going on. In 20+ years they will begin to fail no matter how careful the wiring job is. This means the homes back-wired in the early 80's are now on the brink of failure. The ones from the 70's are already failing. Back-wiring is an accident waiting to happen. I feel that outlawing back-wiring would be a better long-range solution than the band-aid patch of requiring AFCI's on back-wired devices. I have seen the ill effects of arcing caused by back-wiring.

 

[templdl]

Re: AFCI maturity poll

awwt,
I agree. I never backwire even though it is acceptable. From a logical point of view I have never been convinced that the connection will be addequate in the long run.
But you know the drill, anything that can be done to save time, got to have a competitve bid and a low price.
I am not a believer that the use of an AFCI is the solution to poor wiring as is a breaker which you trust will protect a wire which is intentionally overloaded.

 

[big john]

Re: AFCI maturity poll

Don,
Very good point concerning how functional a new AFCI will be by the time the new wiring deteriorates to a dangerous condition.
My personal opinion is that they are beautiful for retrofits. Any cable assembly that utilizes cloth as an insulator should be AFCI protected.
However, I seem to recall hearing talk that there are localities and maybe even the folks within the NEC pushing and being pushed to require all branch circuits to be AFCI protected; I think that's questionable. Sure, there's piece of mind, but with little or not statistics concerning failure rates over long periods of time, I think piece of mind is the only assurance AFCI's actually provide to the property-owner.
For all we know these things could turn out to be a bunch of Federal Pacifics. -John

 

[big john]

Re: AFCI maturity poll

And as far as my opinion on stab-locks go, you know the old saying:
A good electrician will never back-stab his customer.
-John